VIC PAGUIA - F.B.I

FBI is a fast-paced drama about the inner workings of the New York office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This elite unit brings to bear all their talents, intellect and technical expertise on major cases in order to keep New York and the country safe. These first-class agents tenaciously investigate cases of tremendous magnitude, including terrorism, organized crime and counterintelligence.

VIG PAGUIA has been its stunt coordinator since the beginning and each week brings new challenges.  Living and working in New York works for him...we find out why and he chats about his career and a few moments he's really proud of.

enjoy

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello and welcome to this week's look at the world of action and stunts on film and television. How many of you have got into your first job and realized within the first twenty minutes that this job ain't for you? Yep, me too. Nine times out of ten, you have to work twenty, thirty years of terrible jobs to find one you love. And when you find one, you better hang on tooth and nail, because the wolf is always at your door. My guest this week is a lucky boy. His first job was on a Hollywood A-list blockbuster, and he's never looked back. He is Vic Pagia, and is now the stunt coordinator on a show called FBI, filmed in New York. So many boxes to tick here. It's a great show. He loves working on it and creating the action, and he likes to live and work in New York because his family are there. Also, he has no social media footprint. I mean nothing. When I asked his agent for some social content that I could use for promotion, I was told he's got a LinkedIn, I think if that helps. LinkedIn, really? Literally nothing, no Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, you know, before it became Evil X. Not a thing. And again, that's because he likes it that way. You can't fault the guy, really. So firstly, we'll listen to a trailer for FBI, and then we'll get into our chat. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

At dinner on my tenth birthday here. You grew up here? We're all very proud of you. Your father would be too. I care about results, not contents. Get the kids off the field now.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I don't understand why we're still fighting FBI season premiere, September 24th.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

The fact that you have no social media uh coverage at all is fascinating. Uh and may we may touch on that a bit later because it's the 21st century. It's almost as though if you don't have Insta, Facebook, X, all the other bits and pieces, you don't exist. And so to be presented with a LinkedIn as the thing to go, really?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

I don't even that's not even my LinkedIn. I don't even I didn't even um make that. I don't have a LinkedIn. I don't think I do.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Well, uh well it's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, that that that that that's out there because I didn't make one.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Um but it it is it is a remarkable concept that you can get to where you are today and be as successful as you are today when there are people out there in similar boats who've been working similar periods of time, 2006, 2007, maybe the first job, and now all of a sudden yeah they're coordinating pictures and they're doing bits and pieces and lots of television. And without Instagram as being, because that's technically classed as the major social media these days, they would fall flat on their ass. I appreciate that it's massively important to have reputation, you know. If you're very good at what you do and word of mouth says you should use this guy, this girl, they're terrific, they all never let me down whenever I want it. That's great, you know. But that there's always a little something else knocking knocking about, and you don't have any of that.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

I appreciate that you notice that. Um, yeah, thanks. Uh it's definitely intentional, yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean I I got off of um Instagram, I don't know. Man, maybe five years ago or more. Okay. Something like that. Um and I wasn't really even using it professionally. So uh I I didn't honestly know what I was using it for, and I just felt like it was kind of um why have I got this? Yeah, it was kind of put it every time I went onto Instagram, I was like, this is not putting me in a positive place in my life. Like I didn't feel I never felt good after looking at Instagram. I always felt sort of like more anxious or or like just that everyone else is doing something better than I'm doing. Really? That kind of feeling, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So I was like, my my wife and I both like made a conscious decision to to just leave it all, and uh we've been way happier.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Well, absolutely, clearly. Um it hasn't affected your workload at all. Uh that's that's to be to be uh admired. Um but it is interesting that you at a fairly early age, a fairly early stage, I beg your pardon, that you've looked at this and gone, uh, not so sure it's for me. You look at what's going on, and you said yourself that that you you you you were almost looking at others and thinking, why aren't I doing that? Or what you know, there's there's a peer pressure thing maybe involved in all of this.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Instagram's one of social media is one of those things where you it's it is there are realistic things on there, but everyone's sort of pumping up the truth to be better than it really is, you know. Um, I mean, there's like many jokes about it out there, and so you look at things and you're like, wow, my life isn't really like that. Like I see other people, I mean, just not just stunts, just everything, you know, vacations and whatever it is. Um, and I just I just felt like getting out of that game. I just I just felt like that was it took a lot of energy to to sort of like put that together. It took a whole nother set of like effort and energy to um pour into that. And I just felt like that was better used, like maybe on my kids and my family. No, no, absolutely. Just focusing on that. And I I I think like, you know, once basically once we started having kids and our kids started getting bigger, like we we were I it just felt like the bandwidth got smaller and smaller and smaller, and so we just decided to focus on the things that really mattered.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

A lot of sense in that, and and also, you know, I I'm I understand what you're saying. I'm from a generation where we didn't have any social media up until 2007. So, you know, I'd been going along perfectly happily, uh uh reading the the newspapers or reading the uh whatever it was, books and films and stuff and TV, and then all of a sudden this thing came along and took over and changed the way we look at day-to-day life. It's very but if you can uh get into a situation where you go, no, no, no, this is uh we're quite happy doing what we're doing, thank you very much, and make it work for you, then that has to be a bonus. Um, so well done for you and the family for doing that. Congratulations. Uh uh, I appreciate that the the the the you probably weren't expecting it to be called an anomaly at this time of the day. Uh, but it's absolutely fascinating that you do find somebody who has nothing to do with it at all and is still doing what they're doing. Um on the subject of doing what you're doing, I mean, let's go back to uh your early period uh at school at that sort of time. Sure. Often you find that stunt performers are in two categories, they fall into two categories. Either they were really very, very good um when it was uh English and maths and sciences and that sort of bits and pieces, or they hated that. It was more the physical stuff of you know, gymnastics, track and field, all of those sort of bits and pieces, the sport thing. Was that very much the same way with you? Or or or again, are you are you breaking new ground here?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I don't think so. I don't think I'm gonna um excite you there. I I was uh an athlete in college, so I I um I was a springboard diver and um competed um oh I started off as a gymnast and then I switched over to diving like in when I was 14 or something like that. Okay, and um had a lot of success with diving and I got a full scholarship to college because of diving, and I that was like my focus through all of uh my college years and then a little bit beyond. So so yeah, I mean I brought uh my transition into stunts was from a di a uh sort of high diving, acrobatic, gymnastics-y type of background, which I think a lot of a lot of us come from that kind of background.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

And where where was this? Where was uh where was school?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Where was Oh uh Boston University, yeah. Boston University, um, four years there, and then I competed for the Filipino national diving team for a year after that, just you know, like post-college um sort of uh explore the world kind of uh year of that, and then I got into stunts.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

So are we talking always high board and springboard or is this cliffs as well?

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I I I competed one meter, three meter springboard, and then um you know dabbled with platform, but that's our school didn't have a platform, so uh we just focused on one meter, three meter.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Okay. Um, and of course, you said you you made the transition on the base of that, and we have uh lots of um over here in the UK. There's uh with our British stunt register, there is uh a series of qualifications that you have to do. Springboard, high board diving is one of them. Um but it would have been slightly different, I'm assuming, uh, in the States at that time. I know they're trying to bring in uh certain levels of discipline and and and ro quotas that you need to meet before uh being accepted on to work. How did you make the transition then from the uh the diving, the competitive diving, to working in film and television and commercials and that sort of stuff?

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Um it was it was kind of awesome. I uh I had a friend in college who um Dan Brown, who uh he's Dan Brown, yeah, extraordinary high foreman. Well, he um he he uh we were we were on the same team in college and he went off ahead of me. He was a year older than me, so he went off and he started doing stunts, and I was here and back, I was he was like reporting back to me how that was going. And so, you know, I I sort of wanted to pursue a similar career. Um and fast forward to I was I moved to New York, I was sort of following my brother's footsteps. My brother lives in New York, and um he uh I he Dan sent me um like a stunt listing for uh I Am Legend, the movie I Am Legend. The with uh Will Smith movie, yeah, Vic Armstrong and Joy Box um were the stunt coordinators and uh and Vic was the second unit director. And right, you know, I of course didn't really know who they were, but when I looked him up, I was like, wow, Vic Armstrong is freaking legendary, you know. I mean, everyone knows that now. Uh now I know that. Um, even then I knew that when I when I looked him up. And um so I so they they held like an open audition because they needed these creatures. But when that movie was first getting started, they the studio didn't really know how they were gonna do the creatures. They they hadn't made up their mind yet. They greenlit the movie, they you know, they they had a production schedule and everything, but the creatures were like the last sort of piece of the puzzle. And so um the first sort of iteration was they hired, I think, 20 stunt people and 20 dancers to play to be like this core group of creatures to be in like they had a cop they had costumes for us, they had like these silicone rubber suits that we would put on, and we even had wardrobe. And and anyways, if you've seen the movie, you know that it are sort of became motion capture in the end. But yes, uh, so I auditioned for Vic, like like early on. Uh I wasn't even in the union yet, and I uh uh did some he did like an open call where we just did like a little fight choreography, a high fall, um get shot in the face reaction onto a mat. And uh, and that was that was that. Like I I I thought I went in there and I thought I killed the audition. And uh and uh the the night of the callback, uh ever they're like the you know, the casting director was like, you'll hear from us uh later tonight. There's probably I don't know, a hundred people there. Right. Well, I didn't I did not hear back from them. And I was like, I swe I I was like, I was top five in that room. Like I I felt that way. So I was shocked. And I come to find out that um that uh I wasn't tall enough. They they needed like 5'11 and taller, and I'm five nine. So um because that two inches is gonna make all the difference, right? Exactly, two inches is gonna make all the difference. Um but what what I had realized is is I had I had like dropped off my headshot and and resume and stuff off to Vic's arm uh off to Vic's office. So the story's getting really long, but um he uh the office had given me some information about a different audition for people who knew Vic. And I was like, I don't know, I don't know Vic. I've never met him. They're like, oh, then you should go to this open call. Right. But I still had in my notebook like this this first audition that they sent me, like just randomly penciled in. So they didn't get the callback, but I was like, I'm gonna go to this other audition that I have written down. So I just kind of showed up, kind of crashed it, and it happened to be the callback. And uh the casting director saw me and was like, Oh, Victor, uh, how do you spell your last name again? And she kind of got flustered. Like she was like, wait, I thought you didn't get called back, but you're here. Well you're told.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Kind of by crashing the callback, which feels a little bit it wasn't completely dishonest, but it was it was uh it was just my way of of uh I think that it's it's interesting when a lot of people say you know crashing a callback. However, what you've done is you've made a mental decision to go, well, I haven't been called back, and I was the best person in the room without shadow, right? I'm gonna go for this. You know, you're just you're just you've just stuck your head down and gone, right, I'm gonna go for this regardless. And you've plowed yourself into the other one, and a result has come of it, which uh which is pretty much the stunt life, isn't it? You've got to f uh because you have those hustles over there that we don't have over here, but you you're you are looking for work.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

It was great. I mean, like it ended up being great because I I was the smallest guy there, you know, because everyone was six foot or taller, and and I ended up doing all the gags because they needed someone small to get on the wires to to do all the all the little like acrobatic stunts. Uh I just was a better size for all of it. I was like the lightest and the smallest. And so they I tested all the wires. It was like my my my first stunt job, and I ended up getting to do like a dozen ratchets and a bunch of like you know, like a descender and uh just a bunch of gags that I had never it was.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

It's a dream, it's a dream job, isn't it? To get yourself that first job and then to be completely uh uh the the most important person there because you're the one that can do all the all of those gags. But an extraordinary uh lesson by you know uh by fire on the basis of that. But uh how important was that first job? If it had been something else, you know, you you you may have taken a much longer period of time to get into the swing of understanding what was required, the the the technical side of of the ratchets and all the other bits and pieces of quick equipment. Well, how important was that, do you think, to the to the rest of your career?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

It was hugely important. I mean, um Joey was Joey Box was just he like kind of took me under his wing right away. He he could see that I was eager to learn. And he was like, hey, why don't you, you know, you should buy a harness. So he's like, buy a harness. So I bought a harness. And he's like, okay, so why don't we test some of these ratchets? And he, you know, I he he really did sort of walk me through how to do a lot of gags and during rehearsals. And he was really patient with me. And I was really eager to learn and also you know, willing to put myself through um the physical, you know, the the physical hardships of of learning these things too. But um, yeah, it was hugely important. I also got my union card, I got my SAG card from the job, so that just it was massive. And then probably one of the bigger um things that come out of the job was that we had a a c uh a week-long uh huge scene um on the New York Harbor of I don't know, a hundred, maybe eighty stunt people.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

And you know, when they have those big calls, they the Vic and Joey brought in a bunch of local coordinators to kind of be like endy, you know, it was like a big crowd scene, a big kind of sort of riot scene. So I met like every single stunt coordinator in New York. That's just all there. And I'm like, hey, I'm new, and and I was like so nervous, but you know, just kind of there, and you know, it's it's always good to meet stunt coordinators when you're hired to work, when you're actually there working. Instead of looking for work, you are hustling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh from there, it just yeah, things just yeah, your phone starts trickling, like little calls start trickling in, and then you get more and more jobs.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Is that how that happened then? So after that first job, and once you'd started making connections, and then there was a few more phone calls, then you got it, then they got to a point, presumably, where it wouldn't stop ringing.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yeah, I I um I yeah, that first job I think was like 20 weeks long, which is crazy. It was a good stint, isn't it? I had a nice little uh little bucket of cash to sort of live off of. Um and then from there, yeah, I don't think I got my my next call for like for like five months afterwards. So I lived off my my I am legend money, and I think the second call I got was I think it was Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Um Crystal Skull, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

That's right, Crystal Skull. And um, you know, it was the local, it was the it wasn't the whole run or anything, it was just like a couple weeks uh up up in um at Yale.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

We were they were shooting a uh Oh this was that's right, it was the motorbike sequence.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

And I just was an N D person, but I again just just getting to be there and see uh Were you in the library? I was in the library, that's right. Yeah, they needed you know young faces. I guess I was probably 22 or something like that at the time. So uh yeah, just getting to see, you know, how how they do it at the highest level at at 22 and was just I don't know, it just set the set the picture from for in my brain of like what this business is about, you know. I think when you start off on huge movies like that, you you see the scope of what of what it is. Instead of starting off on like indies or s or small small-minded um productions, you just you see big scope right away and you're like, oh, okay, this is this is how it's done.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

And and I suppose uh uh for a while, and what it can do, I mean it can have a terrible reverse effect, is that the fact, oh, this is how it's gonna be then. You know, I've I've arrived on a big picture, I've just done another big picture. Well, it's gonna be big pictures from here on in. But uh uh when maybe people start with commercials or they're doing you know a little spot on a TV show. Um, I mean, I know TV's played a huge part of your career, but from those early days, maybe they think, well, maybe I'm suited to this. Maybe this is what I'm supposed to be doing, is I'm supposed to be doing little bits here and little bits there. Um was that ever the case? Come on in a relatively short space of time. You know, you started with a big picture, you've got Indiana Jones, uh, and then later down the line you've got Star Trek as well, a fairly you know, big budget sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Um yeah, Joey called me. Yeah, that was great. Joey called me.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

You know, Joey Box must have been your mentor for this this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, he did, he did help me out early and he was trying to convince me to move to LA. Um, and I, you know, I was really tempted to and and I I wanted to, but uh ultimately I'm glad I I never made the move because I think staying What was the decision there?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

What what what why why did you uh you you say ultimately you're glad you didn't do it, uh and it was a possibility, but why did you think no no I'm gonna stay New York based?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Um man. That's a good question. I think um, you know, I had my well my like I said before, my my brother lives here. Yep, and I also I'm I'm close to my brother and and like he he works in the theater, he works on Broadway.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Um and I have I have family here as well, and I don't really have any family in LA and I don't know, I think just being close to family and being close to community, and I kind of I kind of told myself like I want to see if I can make it work in New York for five years.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

And if I can't, then then I'll make the move.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Um I think uh the uh philosopher Sinatra once said.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Um Yeah, I mean maybe not maybe not uh in the in the in Hollywood. I think that's a different I think making it here in the movie business is a different type of thing. But because I mean New York I was really fortunate in that New York had tax incentives that passed unbeknownst to me. I I I didn't realize like what was happening, but New York was about to start like a big a boom of movie and t television production when at the same time I started my stunt career, it sort of all lined up because uh before Iron Legend, I don't know, there was a couple uh Iron Legend was probably like the third or fourth movie in this new tax incentive, I think. I I I'd have to look look it up. Um but yeah, everything's just started booming, uh, I don't know, 2004 or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

No, no, you made you don't have to justify yourself to me. Uh, but I understand completely that everybody's different. And and you know, when that little light goes on and it says, Hey, look, LA, come here. This is where it's all happening, right? That's fine. But if you've got reasons, you've got family, you've got uh, you know, many other situations In your life, that means that being where you are makes sense for you. Right. And uh everybody has to do that. You know, there's uh you probably throw a stick and hit half a dozen stump performers who wish to hell they'd stayed in Maryland or wherever they'd come from instead of going to LA because that they never see their family, they never get back, they're always away, you know. So you've you can be in a situation now where you get the best of both worlds. You can make that decision. So, well, I've got to go to LA for two weeks because I've got to do this thing, but I'm always back to do you know home stuff and see your brother and family and stuff. So it's it's it's really what works for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah, uh yeah, exactly. I mean, um that that's that that's like and you said it, you just said it. The the main reason why I'm so happy I I never made the move. And and LA is a great city. I I I love that I've I have friends there, but just working there, you know, the rhythms of working there is is is tough because it's all travel jobs and it's all away. And and like I said earlier, I've got kids now and and just being away from them for extended periods, I just couldn't imagine um trying to try to do that. I think that'd be really tough.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

And as you as you said yourself, you know, there was this resurgence of uh of work happening in and around New York and its basis there. It sort of happened uh there was a little um thing happened in the 80s, um, where there was a big resurgence of filming around there. Mike Hammer, the TV show, that was filmed there, The Equalizer with Edward Woodward, that was filmed there, uh-huh. Shows of that nature. And I I seem to remember Frank Ferrara, one of the great uh uh New York stunt uh coordinators and performers, he was in charge of a lot of that show and um was bringing people in left, right, and centre from all over the place. And they said, This is great. We'd love, you know, we love being here in New York, we don't get enough work here. Now, of course, you know, CSI and uh law and order, they're all doing that thing back in in New York. Um, they were a couple of the shows that you worked on uh leading up to that, whether as as stunts or doubles. Um what's it like in what's the difference between the New York scene arriving on set, doing the bits and pieces? Um I appreciate that obviously from a lot of this stuff is filmed in the street during the day, lots of traffic going about, whereas in LA they might have um part of this particular studio set, which is the street, whatever. But is it more complicated filming in New York? How how does it work from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, I mean, it is um New York is is a really difficult place. It's just a difficult place to live, it's a difficult place to to work, um, to to to film because for the most part, anytime you film on a street in New York, you don't get to have the street to yourself. You you can you can lock up intermittently um or or if you do want to close something down, it has to be for like a really distinct period of time, a few hours.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

And so a lot of times we're dealing with you know, I don't know, if you've been to New York, there's just there's just cars and people and bikes and dogs and everything all over the place. And if you're filming a car chase, you you know, you're you're worried about the choreography with the cars and and the grid and everything. But you're also worried about like a pedestrian just like walking out into the street. You know, they they we we lock up the street, but but um anything, anything could jump out into the street because there's just so many people and there's and there's um it's almost impossible to just hold everyone back. And you know, we you you're not allowed to touch anyone, you know, you know, like if some if some bike messenger wants to uh not to disparage bike messengers, but like if someone wants to just break through a lockup and we've cars blazing down the street, you know, uh they're gonna do it. Like a serious, yeah, that could cause a serious situation. Um uh yeah, so so um it it is it does have its own set of challenges um because of that, you know, or or just people looking, you know, people just kind of being in the shot.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yeah, it's the cu it's uh fascinating, it's the curiosity, isn't it? I I remember there's a there's a wonderful sequence, um I guess going back a little while, but so do I, you know, the it's not it's all nostalgia for me. Um there's an opening sequence in in Cagney and Lacey, right? Which again was filmed in New York, and the two of them, uh Sharon Gless and Tyne Daly, are walking towards camera, and there are probably uh what, a thousand people on the sidewalk coming because it's a it's a morning, I imagine, so it's a commuting people. And you know that probably around them are 10 or 12 people who've been put in to go be round here and just keep an eye on them as they're walking up the street, but everybody else is gonna be around them. But there's oh, I don't know, 25-30 people looking directly at camera because they go, Oh my god, there's a camera, you know, that sort of thing. Um, and that happens so often, but you've got to just go with the flow and hope that the content that's coming out from the two is is gonna draw you into the to to what's going on as opposed to what's going on behind. Um I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

No, yeah. Famously, uh French Connection, you know, the car chase, the famous car chase was that's right, was also filmed just in live in live traffic in New York. Like I mean, that's just insane.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

With with the with the camera guy in the back, yeah, just and and Bill uh giving it the beans in the front and just going right here. We go, let's go these next 10 blocks and see how we get on.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

And there's this there's an accident, there's a crash in the in the chase. That's right. That that was uh also infamously uh like a like a real crash, like a real just arrived out of nowhere. Yeah. Um I mean nowadays I've obviously that would not not be celebrated, but it's worth looking back on it, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

It uh um it wouldn't be celebrated as much. It probably if it was any good and everybody was happy with the no one got hurt.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Um there is a guy, um uh and I I don't know why I'm telling you this, because you won't know, not being on social media, but I'll explain the whole concept of it. There's a guy on TikTok um who is a bike messenger around um New York, and all he does is he's got a camera on his helmet and he goes up the bike lanes because that's what they're for, and then shouts at people who shouldn't be in the bike lanes or people on bikes going the wrong way up bike lanes. It's absolutely fascinating. It's a very silly premise, but it's gratifying to watch uh that maybe there are the odd bike messenger out there who are who are abiding by the rules, you know, when everybody else isn't.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Um You know, I did this movie, um, a premium rush. I was uh I was uh movie back, I don't know, what year 2009, I think we shot it, um, where Joseph Gordon Levitt plays a bike messenger. Oh yes, I double I doubled him, which is really funny, but you know, with the helmet on and everything, you just can't kind of tell that uh I'm like an Asian dude doubling a white dude. But um but uh yeah, I did I did a lot of bike riding through the city and we did a lot of live traffic um you know shots of just like you know go from go seven blocks up, right? And we're gonna film you long lens just like ripping through traffic, just cutting through traffic and taxis and getting wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah I remember I think I remember seeing that. Yeah, I remember seeing some or certainly some footage of it.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

It's a great, I mean it's a great chase movie, it's a great bike, bike, uh, you know, if you're if you're into bike, you know, urban bike uh that's right, yeah, bike racing, you know, it's a great movie. We had some really good riders on that as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Uh you got a lot of these guys now who who uh you know even started out doing BMX or they started out as bike couriers and and now they've moved on to to trick riding and various other bits and pieces and getting work in in pictures uh like the ones you're you're describing. So yeah, uh from Little Acorns, you know, that's where it all starts. Um I find um uh look I know you younger, you you if you go through a list of your films and and certainly ones over the last oh I don't know, 10 years or so, um, there's great choice in different types of genre. And I know you don't get the option to go, I'd rather not do this, I'd rather do something else. Um, but it the the variation of the work um must be incredibly gratifying and enabling you to do uh as they used to say in the old days, well, I was a I'm a cop one day, I'm a cowboy the next, you know, it's terrific. And and certainly looking at some of the stuff that you've been doing, um, you know, there's some remarkable bits and pieces there. Uh if you didn't have the opportunity of choice, would it would it be uh if you didn't have the opportunity of of um of just being given work and being able to jump into and go, okay, let's take every day as it as it as it comes, would it be would it be slightly more complicated? Would it be as gratifying?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Um I'm I'm sorry. I uh sorry, could you ask me the question one more time?

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, well the the reason I it's two-parted. So this the first part was that it you have um lots of different genres in the pictures and television stuff that you do. You're not always doing one type of piece of work. Right, right, right. Um and I wondered if that's part of the element of why it's exciting to go to work every day, because there are, I'll dri I'll drag the second part in as well. There are individuals who just do this or they only do that, and they've made a career doing it, but they don't do anything else. They're they're normally car people, or they're normally this, or normally that. Totally. Um, whereas you you're doing a a bunch of everything and and and variation, of course, must be key to the success in the business.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, I think um, yeah, uh being an all-around stunt performer is um I I think it's one of the best ways to be in the business. I I I I like you know um in fact when I first started, I d I didn't think there there was a way to really specialize. And I I think there may be more specialized performers nowadays. Right. Um like maybe there's a thing. There's like fight guys who don't drive, or there's driving drivers who just don't fight.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

And um and that's fine. I mean that's there's nothing wrong with that. But um but yeah, being all around, I I I think it's it's great. Like I I didn't come into the business with a driving background, but I worked at it. And I think there's that's its own challenge and mental, you know, it it gives you something to to work on and to think about and to pursue. And same with fights, like I didn't come in as with a martial arts background, but I worked at it and I spent a lot of time um choreographing and and working on it. And so so now when you see when I show up on a job, I could be thrown into a car, I could be thrown into a fight, I could be set on fire. I you know, you don't you don't know exactly what's um what what you're gonna be asked to do. But if if you're there and you can do it all, then you're just gonna work more.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

You know, that's that that I mean that was advice given to me early on was you know, learn as much stuff as you can, learn all the disciplines that you can because you never know when you're gonna get a call to do a car crash or precisely uh you know, you you might need to double someone that's gotta you know do a car crash and then get out and fight, you know. So so just know how to do it all.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Because uh as as we all know, um there are uh actors in this world who go to castings and uh the casting says, You can ride a horse, right? Oh yeah, I can ride a horse, yeah. To find out when they get on set. They've never sat on a horse in their life, you know, but they need to work. Whereas um there was a time we had a very, very successful uh stunt man and coordinator here in the UK called Derek Ware. Um, and uh whether you're familiar with Doctor Who, but those early Doctor Who TV shows, he was his organization called Havoc were often responsible for the action on the show and uh was a wonderful horseman, but couldn't drive, couldn't drive a car. And so that limited the type of work that he got. I mean, his career went from strength to strength. He always found somebody who could drive a car, you know, working on his behalf. But it's fascinating that there that there are still individuals who don't verify, you know, they they they don't have this this option of being able to go, yep, whatever it is, I'll throw my hat in the ring and I can do it because I've done this, this, this, and this, you know. But I would imagine it's massively important.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

It is really important. It is as a stunt coordinator now, it it it gives me a lot of comfort to have a stunt performer on set that can do multiple disciplines. Right. Because you just know even if even if they're not doing the gag, if somebody else is, they can kind of be support there. Yeah, I mean, like if you have a room full of martial artists and someone's doing a doing a car gag, those guys aren't gonna step in and and help out necessarily. You know, I'm kind of sort of generalizing, but but uh if you have some all-arounders there, they might go in and check on the driver and be like, hey, do you need anything? Do you do you belts tightened, whatever? Do you want me to check the you know your points and I don't know what it you know, there's just there's just a more the team becomes more cohesive, more hands-on rather than uh than than like performers and spectators. Um because you know, on our show on FBI, we will do we we'll bounce from a car crash to a chase to a fight in one day. And all those people are all there, you know. So so it's nice to have a team that can that can kind of help each other out.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Let's look at FBI if we may. We we've touched on it there. It's the show that you're certainly associated with at the present time. So over 60 episodes now, I think, as uh coordinator, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Well, that's what IMDB says. Okay, but but really it's been 157 like that. Okay. Um, I don't I don't put them in IMDB, so what whatever just kind of pop I don't know how um I I I used to put in my credits in IMDb manually, but I haven't done that with FBI, and I think they kind of just randomly show up. So I don't know. Uh I don't think I'm gonna put the red.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

It might not be just you putting in those credits, you see. That's the thing with IMDb is one of those fascinating things where a bunch of people put stuff together and then your name turns up on a number of occasions, and all of a sudden you've got five more credits that you didn't know you had in the first one.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

I know. It's funny, I used to I used to really try to keep keep that up to date, and I just kind of I kind of stopped.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Again, I have to take my hat off to you. It's it's fascinating. I mean, you you really are extraordinary. Um well certainly from FBI's perspective, then um how do you let's look at it from you get an episode, let's see how this works. So you're aware of the episode, or you get the episode, you're coordinating, um, and you realize that there's three or four gags in this particular episode. There's a car crash, there's a little fire job, partial body burn, and then there's a high fall at the end, which is the the villain's demise or whatever it is. Right. Um, do you get rehearsal time on any of this? Do you get to understand uh a breakdown of that? Do you break it down yourself and say from that location, we'll do this here? We could also do that fireburn here as well, because that's convenient for the day's filming. Uh or or how does it work as far as sort of you as a coordinator getting that and breaking down the action?

SPEAKER_00 37:41

So those logistics are usually so the the our pipeline, our workflow on the show is extremely tight. Okay. I'll I'll be because we shoot and prep at the same time, I'll be filming an episode, unless it's the first episode of the season, right? But generally I'll be filming an episode while the next episode's prepping simultaneously with the next director. So I'm generally not even available to to logic out some of the locations.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Uh that's a very short window, isn't it? Uh it's almost soap opera territory because they're filming uh this particular thing they'll be filming over the next three weeks, and then that's what happens directly on top of that. You've got, as you say yourself, new directors in doing this, doing that. How does that must have been very difficult to get your head around, was it?

SPEAKER_00 38:34

It it is. I did have a um a learning curve at first, and I think our show's gotten heavier on action over the last couple seasons, uh, too. So, so um I am I do get rehearsal time for certain things. And rehearsal time might just be me choreographing a fight or just rehearsing a gag, but I won't I won't ever usually get actors to rehearse because they're also shooting um while we're prepping. So we're trying to steal actors away.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

I mean, I everyone on the show has just got a pay a grueling pace where they're just like like the actors are just shooting a scene, shooting a scene, shooting a scene, episodes over next day, shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting, shooting. Right. And so for uh for their days off to line up with my days off um isn't nearly impossible. Um so so we just we just like I mean if I if I'm gonna choreograph and rehearse a fight, I'll do it with the doubles you know, on some random day that I'll have off if if I have a day off, or I'll do it on the morning of like some sometimes the morning of the take. Yeah, sometimes I'll ask the ADs like, hey, will I have time to to sort of put this fight together that in the morning because because we don't have any time for a rehearsal day.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

And and they'll be like, Yeah, maybe we can push the fight back to after lunch and then you can have the morning or it's it's almost like it's gone full circle because there was a time when um I mean you you know you wouldn't be rehearsing High Falls and you wouldn't be rehearsing uh unless it's really very specific. But I mean uh types of stuff of that um it's it's gone full circle like it would be in the 70s, where you turn up on a show and they'd go, right, this afternoon we're doing this, and this is what I need you to do, have a quick run through with the amount there and work the stuff out, and then we'll go and film it. And then in the sort of 90s period, they changed all of that to get lots of rehearsals done and make sure that everybody knew exactly what they were doing 10 days in advance, you know, if they had the option to do it, and now it's come back again. Does that make it more difficult, or does it uh from the the the experience that you had so far, do you see that this is actually a much more better uh uh uh uh stream of consciousness of going, right? Well, this is what we're doing today. Let's get on with it and get it done, and now it's fresh in your mind.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

I kind of love it. I when I first started in the business, you know, like Vic Armstrong came from very much from the world of like, all right, here's here's I mean, like one of the first gags I did for him, he was like, here's the here's the this, I think I had to jump on the hood of a car that was like teetering on the edge. And and he's like, Okay, here I show up to set and he's like, All right, there you got to jump on the hood of that car, it's kind of up high, but uh jump on that and just mind the wheels because they're the the gas pedal was down and like the front wheels were spinning. He's like, just don't get your arm in there because it's gonna get chopped off or something. She says something like that. So no rehearsal.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

It was great. So it's rolling action, just jump on the hood, you know. And um you kind of like I don't know, there's something about that that's old school and sort of like you you just kind of look as a stunt coordinator, you kind of look at it and you kind of know like that's possible or that's not possible.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Or or maybe you find out on like the first rehearsal of you know, rehear rehearsal, not like a rehearsal day, but the rehearsal before we roll the camera.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Um, what kind of needs to change? And and uh as my career kind of started off, it was sort of I I started seeing the beginnings of pre-vizes. I I feel like I don't know when that started exactly, but like on Star Trek, you know, the fight choreographer uh Rob Alonso was like showed me a pre-viz and like there weren't iPhones yet, so it was it was like uh done on a camcorder and edited on a computer, and it was like all very uh it was it was really the equipment wasn't well there wasn't enough equipment yet to like there is today, you know. That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

The technology hadn't come on.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

But um, but I was like really impressed. I'm like, wow, this this is like its own little movie. Yeah, the first previs I saw was on Star Trek, and I'm like, this is this is crazy. This is so um, but that doesn't mean every job I did had a previs. So a lot of times we would just show up and sort of come up with like, uh there's a bar fight, and and this guy has to end up on the ground over there, but it has to start over here. So let's like figure something out, and we just sort of like self-choreograph it, you know, and and it's sort of an exercise of like how I I mean I've so I've seen both sides of it. I've seen the previous side of it, and I've also seen the let's just show up and kind of wing it.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

And if you have enough talented people in the room that are smart, then you're fine. After the races, aren't you? Yeah, yeah. But if you're teaching people how to fight, and you know, I think rehearsals are really important if the the people performing aren't c comfortable with with whatever the gag is and get them through the paces. But if everyone shows up and they're all seasoned pros, then you kind of have no problem.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

There are many benefits to previs, I see that. And certainly on pictures like Star Trek, for instance, where um there's lots of special effects, lots of added bits and pieces. Uh the um the type of combat or the type of action sequence suggests that it will be filmed from many different angles. So you're creating those so you recognize this is the shot, that's the two shot there, then we cut to here. But then, as you say yourself, doing it on the morning, well, you get the organics of the whole thing. You think I need to. Start here and end over here. I know what would be a great idea, and you're doing it as you're creating it and suggesting ideas to the performers, again, who are versatile enough to go, all right, let me try this. And how about this? You know, um, there's that I can see benefits to both, but but clearly in a type of fight situation, uh uh and on the the type of schedule that you're using, the the organic side of the thing must be must be massively important.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

It is. And you know, um thinking back to premium rush, like one of my mentors for my career, George Aguilar, he's the second unit director, so coordinator. Um, he was the second unit director on premium rush, and we didn't rehearse any of the chases because you can't really rehearse a 20-block chase in Manhattan anywhere. You know, in in New York, I mean we would have had to go it would have the the resources that we would have had to spend in order to rehearse that would have been probably just not worth it. Yes, exactly. Yeah, but so you know, just just seeing how he how he would set things up, you know, you e everyone sort of shows up and and we kind of grid it out and grid the cars out and talk about how the chase is gonna go, and it's all sort of done there on the morning of, and then you're not it's I I'm saying wing it, but you're not you're not really winging it because everyone's a professional, um, and everyone sort of knows what to do.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Are there are there N D drivers in there?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Yeah, yeah. So so we had like 30 ND drivers uh every day on that on that job. And and uh yeah, you there's there's just a way of setting things up so that you set everyone up to succeed. Um and you make it so that it's really clear. So everyone knows their job and everyone's set up to succeed. And I think that's like kind of the secret to like day of um choreography or day like like the whole do things on the fly aspect of of doing stunts.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah. I mean, uh yeah, we we use the phrase on the fly, but I mean, um, and for him to go, look, well, I want you to go seven blocks that way, you know, that's okay. But you as you say yourself, you've got a couple of drivers in there, primarily for your safety and somebody else's safety, but there is also real traffic there which you're having to hurtle in and out of to get from point A to point B, yeah, which gives it that fly appearance, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah, and one thing that George always did, which which I I had never this had never really happened for me before, was he'd be like, Hey, so how do you want to do this? I I think I was like crashing a bike into a car or something. And he's like, Hey, so how do you how do you want to do this?

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Oh, he'd throw you the suggestion.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, You want you want me to tell you how I want to do it? I'm like, Oh, okay. Uh, I don't know. I mean, he's like, Well, because I'll tell you how I'd want to do it. I'd want to do it this way or that way. Uh what do you think? Does that does that make you comfortable? And and I'd be like, Oh, uh yeah, but maybe maybe I'd want to start over here because I think that angle's better or something like that. And he's like, Yeah, I think we could do that, you know, and he and and sort of that whole concept of like setting your performer up to succeed instead of just telling them what to do, yeah, is kind of was sort of enlightening for me early on in my career. And I kind of stand by that principle now because you you know, if we're if we're gonna just slap things together on the day, I don't I don't want the person that's performing to be like, I I don't feel comfortable with this. I don't even know. You know, you want you want them to feel like really confident and comfortable so that they can knock it out of the park and just ultimately give the best performance.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Especially when when stunts itself was always considered such a closed shop at one time, you know, you had those individuals, and this probably happens all over the world, it certainly happened in the UK, where you had those individuals who had been there from day one, right? And everything was done that way. And if somebody new would come on and go, Um I'm doing a car knockdown uh here, uh what do you think? How do you think I should do it? I said, Well, you'll find out in a minute when you do it. You know, there wouldn't be that advice. Now, nowadays, and I think this has happened all over the place now. Nowadays, people are uh good enough to go and say, Is this your first? Are you have you got hips on? Put some hips on just in case. Get that knee up as high as you can, right? And get onto the thing. Are we leaving the windscreen wipers on? No, take them off. You won't need them. The chances are they'll cut your face up and it'll be terrible. So all of these little bits and pieces, does the windscreen have to go? I've got an idea. Let's just put either put debts in here or we'll keep we'll we'll put something there that'll do it. Fascinating stuff to come to to performers and go, this is how I would do it. And similarly, from the coordinator's point of view, as you're saying there from George, how would you like to do this?

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

That's not a question you get very often. And you did the same thing by going, I'm sorry you're asking me. Well, yeah, it's your gag. How would you want to do this?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

You know, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

So I think that's that's really important to see that it's it's come an awfully long way where the coordinators and everybody can go to anybody and go, Can I ask a question? And I need some advice here. And somebody goes, sure, fire away. You know, we'll we'll do what we can for you.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

I mean, that and still, I mean, I do ask many people how to do things, but I do still force them into certain things. Like I remember uh on FBI, my um one of my stunt doubles Hannah, Hannah Scott, she had to get kicked through a double pane of glass.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Hannah Scott, who has the biggest mantelpiece in the world with all her Taurus awards on it, and uh just constantly winning stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

And yeah, so she um she she had to go through some glass and and um you know she the only part exposed was her neck, and so I was like, okay, we gotta put some moleskin on your neck. She was like, Oh, do I have to? And I'm like, Yeah, we're gonna give you a moleskin turtleneck. So we cut some some moleskin and and just taped it to her neck. But you know, there are certain things that I I feel like she she didn't love the moleskin on the neck, but I made her do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

And and it and it made a lot more sense, you know, not having it, uh having it instead of not having it, because that possible oh dear. Yeah, it's always interesting now because every window you see somebody go through is huge and therefore has to be real glass, and um and maybe has debts in the corner to to get the thing going. Whereas in the old days, you would probably see people going out through a tiny picture window, which was sugar glass or resin or something.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah, um, uh, but uh everything you see these days, huge, enormous uh panes of glass. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Um and you never not get cut.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

You always you'd always get cut. Yeah, yeah. If if you if you know going in, well, I'm gonna get cut some bruises here. Well, that's it, that's fine. Um, if you think any more of that, well, that's a slightly different kettle of fish, you know. You have to you do think I have to think outside the box occasionally, but every once in a while you go, no, I'm gonna get an injury, it's fine, I can work it out.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Okay, yeah. And and and just when you when you do the rehearsal and you see the performer like put their hand put their palm on the ground or something before we put the glass in, like, can't do that, buddy. You're gonna you're gonna chew up your hand.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah, don't do that. Um, let's take a look. I asked this question of a lot of of my guests, and really just to split three occasions in your career, and it's fairly extensive, either from often from a performer's point of view, but uh you can have coordinating credit in here as well if you wish. Something, three occasions in your career where, without shadow of a doubt, as far as you're concerned, you would say, I nailed that a hundred percent, and if I did it today, I wouldn't be able to do it justice again. I that that take was the thing, and I'm really, really proud of it. Can you come up with three suggestions, either from film or from television, where you've gone, that was as good as it gets for that. I did that really, really well. And I I appreciate it, might take some time, and I've stumped many a professional by them going, I don't remember what I did last month. I'm struggling to think what I did 20 years ago. But um, they all come out with answers and they're fascinating. And the reasons behind it, I think, are really crazy.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Um there are two that come to mind. There are two to come that come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Okay, we can do those first. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Man, it's really sad because one of them one of them didn't even make the final cut.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Often that's the best. You know, I did such a great job, but it was such a great job that the editor thought that the movie didn't need it and chucked it out.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Uh the so the first one, it was my my first job, my my first job, my first um gag ever on I Am Legend. Okay was um I was I was we we went to MoCap, so I was in a little motion capture suit. Yeah, and it was in Washington Square Park in in uh New York City. And in the story, there's in the park, uh Will Smith's character has set up all these big lights. Oh yes, that's right. Um that uh that that hurt the monsters, like when the when they sunlight or bright lights hurt hurt their skin. So they've they've become sort of smart and they're sort of uh charging towards his house and knocking these lights down. Right. So again, and it's like a big, you know, light pole. It's like a it was up, I don't know, 15 feet high or something like that. Giant floodlight, like this, like this big floodlight. And so uh they built a breakaway one and I had to run climb up the side of like a little bathroom, like a like a park bathroom. I don't know, it's like a little like mini house. Yeah, like climb to the side of a little bit convenience. Yeah, to like kind of parkour up the side. Um, we built some some little uh things for me to to tack off of, run across the roof and then um jump and dive, uh jump through the air and dive and like knock the light out with my shoulder and then land on a on like a catch. So it was like a little mini 15-foot high fall, something like that, tackling a light in midair and landing on like a little port of pit. It was really small, it was like a little you know, eight by five ports.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Oh, really small. Okay. You could have missed it. I could have missed it.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

If it wasn't for the floodlights, I mean it was so long ago. Maybe there were two of them next to each other, so maybe it was maybe it was like eight by ten. Um uh, but uh the the tricky thing was that the the roof was on a down the root I had to land on the downslope of the roof.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

So imagine you know the the roof is is pitched like this. Yeah, so I had to land on the on the downside of it and then and then launch up off of that, which was really weird. It was a really weird landing. And we were wearing these shoes that were like sort of looked like bare feet, the like the like toesy. You know, the toes you have each individual sleeve. Stick them over your shoes. And those things when I would when I would stick my feet in onto the onto the roof, my toes would like curl under my feet because of the it was so weird.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

It was like a forward momentum.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

Yeah, I got forward momentum and like like sticking my foot onto the roof, it just like would peel my toes under my my foot. It kind of sucked, but um, but yeah, like on the first take, I just I just crushed it. I I felt like I I flew through the I I had to also like stay stay on a dolly shot. There was a dolly shot going along the roof, so I had to like out of the corner of my eye just stay with the dolly.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

And then and then uh run and dive.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

And this was all like a number of pressure points along the way.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Yeah, and I just couldn't I couldn't believe that like I'm a new guy. This is my first job. I can't believe I'm doing this. It's a really serious gag. Yeah, absolutely. I was also so new that I didn't realize the the sort of like what it was, you know. They they were just like, yeah, just stay with that dolly. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

You know, I'll just stay with the dolly.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

Yeah, that's and and I like I I remember I I hit the um I hit the light, I crashed, I landed on the pad, and and I and like Joey and and a couple other people were just like, you know, say were spotting spotting the pad, and they were like, dude, that was like they were just giving me props, and I felt so I was like, I did it. I did my first stunt and I and I nailed it. And that was that was a great gag. Okay. Um another there's um one other one that I don't know if I feel like I nailed it, but um if I had to do it again, I I don't think I could. I think that'll fall into that category.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

We'll accept that one. Go on.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

So on Zombieland, um, I had to do a I was a zombie in the back of a car with Jesse Eisenberg driving. It's at the beginning of the movie. And uh he's getting chased around. Uh this is like the very oh, it's like almost opening credits of the movie. Maybe not opening credits, but like one of the first scenes. And he jumps into his car, he's driving along, and I pop up in the back seat and I start attacking him. I'm a zombie, right? Attacking him, and he's freaking out, and he uh crashes into the side of a flower shop, and I go through, I get ejected out of the car through the windshield, through this the window of the flower shop, and then pop up and and jump on the hood of the car. And I'm trying I'm trying to get get to him through the uh the hole in the windshield that I made. You know, I'm I'm like, it's kind of funny, and there's a windshield wipers like hit me in the face, and uh he shoots me with a shotgun off the hood and then comes around and and shoots me again. And it's like the double tap. It's like in the movie, there's there's all these rules that he lives by, and one of them is seat belts and the other one is double tap.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Now that that's so that gag was I haven't seen the movie, but I on the basis of what it is, I've got to have to watch this now. So um you you pop up in the back seat, you're attacking him. He drives into the flower shop. So you how are you is the is the passenger seat missing so that you can go out through?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yes. So we so we uh we did rehearse this gag. Um we took the we took the passenger seat out of, I think it was a sob. Okay. We took the passenger seat out and we replaced it with uh a ramp, like a like a a ramp of masonite uh on top. So it's sort of slick, and we I think we pledged it too, a little pledge to make it actually slick. And and it went from the dashboard all the way down to like the the the footwell of the back seat. So imagine like a ramp like yes, I got you. Uh and I just just like chambered myself really, really tight in the with my stomach on the on the ramp. And um, I had to eject myself right as the car is crashing, it crashed into a jersey barrier. So as the car's just before it hits, I had to launch myself. And we were going, I think, 18 miles per hour, maybe. And so I should in theory have all the energy of the 18 mile per hour plus my jump to eject me from the car.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

And the ejection from the car and going through the shop window is one take. That's right. Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Yeah, so so we took the we took the windshield out of the car. Yeah, because that that would have slowed me down too much.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

And I remember George telling me uh George Aguilar had just done that gag, I think, on on a previous movie, and he was like, Yeah, the guy jumped too late and the car crashed, and then he just he barely made it on onto the hood, you know, all the energy was gone. So he's like, You've got to jump right before it hits. And so I took that advice and and um, you know, I just remember like I still very distinctly remember when they called action. We we we put the car, we had we had pasted out, so all the driver had to do was T. Ryan Mooney. All we had to do was um put it on its start mark and he had to floor it. And by the time we hit the the barrier, it would be 18 modes, yeah. Yeah, we we we just like clocked it a couple times and found that start mark. So um, so all he had to do was floor it. And I I mean all he had to do was crash into a wall.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

All he had to do was floor it and crash into the shop, which is easy to do.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

Which is not great, yeah, which is also not a great feeling. I think honestly, he probably took a harder hit than I did, but um, but yeah, so so once once it yelled action, I just remember feeling like, oh, this is this is happening. Like we're doing this. Like like I'm just looking at this, we're just looking at the shop window, and and the window was probably you know seven feet tall by five by five feet, four feet wide. It was not that big, it was like the size of a doorway.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

But you you were gonna go through it forwards, you weren't getting the plan was for me to to dive.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

I wanted to uh to dive, dive and just superman through the yes through the through the window like this. Got it. Um so uh and and of course I'm looking over at the guy on the button for the window at the fire and the destination. And he was like, he was like retired. I he was like smoking. He was definitely like retired, probably smoking. I think he had like a shaky hand, you know? And I was like, dude, you have gotta hit this button at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Don't go early.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Don't go late. Don't go late. I don't wanna, I don't wanna be uh a statistic, a sticker on the on the window. Yeah, so so anyways, yeah, we're we're going out the window, and I'm like, oh, we're really doing this. Uh I jump a foot before um and I come I come out the window and I started pitching and I and I got upside down. Uh because I had the the the wind the windshield opening was really small.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

It was it's not big, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Yeah, it was maybe 18 inches or something like that. So I had to really be be like flat coming out.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

And because I had my my chin tucked in, I just started flipping and I hit flat on my back on the window. On the window, on the window, and my heels both hit the f above the window. They both hit the frame at the top, the frame, and it was like a stone wall. And so I just remember laying on the other side of the window, and I felt like my feet were gone. I had my eyes, I had my glass all over my face, so I had my eyes closed, and and I uh was just like rotating my ankles. I'm like, are my feet still there? Are my feet still there?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Can I can I feel my feet, please? Are they still?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

And the guys come in, they like blast blast air out on my face to get the glass off my face, and and I open my eyes and I'm like, okay, my feet are there.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Like I literally thought my feet got must have been so impressive to watch that as a member of the crew, just to stand there. That's insane. I can't believe what this is. And again, this is like a blink and you'll miss it moment at the start of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Yeah, but that's what nobody understands is the work that goes into creating. Oh, you just go through the windscreen. Well, I had to lie down on this thing and leap before it so I got out. It's absolutely extraordinary. And then for you to then explain that as you because you tucked your chin in to try and prevent yourself from that consequently, your body shape then changed.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

Oh, I got my hips over my head, and uh that was it. I was flipping.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Well, I'll have to dig that one out. That's that's definitely gonna have to have a look.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

When you watch it, it looks like a dummy coming out, it's so fast.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

That's gotta be the highest compliment, surely. Uh it looks like uh it looks like a dummy or CGI.

unknown 1:02:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

That was you, yeah. Wow. You can clearly see my heels hitting the top too. It sucked. I mean, if I did that now, I I don't think I'd be able to walk for a couple months.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

No, no, absolutely yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

I was in my 20s then, so it was like it hurt for one day, and then the next day I was I was good. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Great boy. Okay, so there's two really good examples. Give us a third one then. So we've had we've had I am legend and we've had Zombieland. This next one, is this the one that that didn't make the take?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Didn't make No no no the the the Z the um I am Legend one didn't make it. The I am Legend, okay. That one didn't make it. Um I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

That's a shame. There's gonna be a director's cut somewhere with that knocking about, surely. I wonder if we can dig that out. That would be very exciting to watch that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Um I do have a I do have a third one um that we it's memorable. Um I feel like it was a good moment in um this just popped into my head. I don't know if this is even answering the question, but I was I was uh coordinating um this this kid's movie called Goosebumps, and we had to pipe a bus, a school bus.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

And uh I was I was on second unit, I was a second unit stunt coordinator. Right. And um we show up to to the road and we have the pipe ramp and we haven't tested it because you know the the test really comes on the first take.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Yeah. And um how many buses do you have to play with? Should you need to do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

I think we had two buses. Okay. And um I think the this is pretty early on in my stunt coordinating career, and it was a valuable lesson where the it was a country road in in Georgia, and and we had a really long run. The bus had to get it to like 60 miles per hour.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

And I think it must have been the 80s or someone from production was like, so we can put the so so on the receiving end of the pipe ramp is a hill, a downhill, and at the bottom of the hill is where they wanted to park all the trucks. You know, the direction the bus was going is where they wanted to park all the trucks. And I was like, man, this is not this does not look like a good place to park trucks. And and I was like, I can't believe I'm the only person here who's like looking at the case.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Who spotted that this is not a great idea?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

And and they're like, well, yeah, well, well, where's the bus gonna stop? I'm like, it's probably gonna stop, you know, 50 feet from the ramp or something like that. But then again, it might not. But but it might land on its wheels, and then it, and then and the driver might be knocked out, yeah, yeah. Or something. And and you know, and then maybe he can't stop. I like, and then now, and now he's going 60 miles per hour on a bus that can't be stopped towards the trucks. And they're like, okay, so let's move him around the corner. And so they took, you know, it took another hour or something to move the trucks, to move all the trucks, and and uh and on the first take, the bus did not get over.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

Oh, right. So it just righted itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

The but the and this is a this is a testament to school bus technology, but the school bus hit the hit the r hit the pipe. It was going driver side down, and it was literally on its side. The bus was on its side. The window, the driver could have stuck his hand out and touched it. Really? It was that far down. Okay. It was all the way over. But just a corner of one of the wheels touched the touched the road and it took the whole thing back. It was one of the craziest, like the chassis was was like this was like you know, 80 degrees over, and the wheels brought the whole thing back. It was insane. I I was honestly really impressed with school bus technology. He was still conscious and everything. It all worked out. But he but I was like, man, if those trucks had been there. The example that I gave was was it was coming to life. And I and uh it was a valuable lesson as a stunt coordinator. Like, you know, the the the sometimes you have to say the thing that that no one really wants to hear, or they grumble, or like, oh fine, we'll move the trucks. No, no, absolutely. And and you just gotta do it because um if you if you give in to that, then that's just when accidents happen. You just have to trust your instincts.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

Um, anyways, I know that's not really no no, but it's it's but it's massively important. It's the um it's it's the Tom Cruise theory where people go, no, no, it's fine. He's fine hanging from that plane. Yeah, but the plane could crash, you know. Yeah. Uh oh yeah, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, uh well the the you have to think outside of that box. Yes, he's the executive producer, yes, he's hanging underneath the plane, but the plane could crash. So we go uh yeah. So uh that that was the first take. And then it uh you you've got to do it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

Yes, give the driver some. Yeah, yeah. Keith Adams. Um Keith Adams? Yeah, great, great driver.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Buses, ambulances, you know, he just turns everything over. He doesn't care what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

He's yeah, he's he's great. Uh so yeah, we made some modifications. Yeah, we had to weld weld the suspension down on the bus, and that that did it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Um just that extraordinary though. And and as you say, I remember the um uh the the first Daniel Craig Bond movie, Casino Royale, they were wanting to use a ramp to flip the Aston Martin.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Uh, and of course, the computer brain in the in the Aston realized it had gone beyond the point of no return, and the car almost righted itself, which is why they had to go for a cannon afterwards, because they had to get over that point. Strange that that that the it gone all the way over this bus, and that little bit of contact was enough to bring it right back onto its wheel again. Fascinating, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Yeah, insane.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

And these are the traditional school buses, the ones like a big yellow school bus.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

Yellow school bus. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So those are those are now now we know. Now we know how tough they are to get over good to flip over.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Well, I I will say that um, you know, I think they're three really good examples. I'm desperate now to try and find that uh I am legend thing that apparently doesn't exist in the film, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I would be enormously gratified if I can find that. Um, and certainly the uh uh the rest I'd like to have a look at as well. So I'll I'll dig those out and we'll stick those in a little um uh piece in here. Um Vic, it's been an absolute pleasure. I must say, uh, thank you very much indeed for doing this and uh for sharing some some of your your valuable time with us. Um the show goes on. Um uh what's the situation with FBI at the moment? I mean, uh are you are you on a little hiatus thing or are we going again? And uh is the is it bigger and better than it was last last season? Is that the plan to keep topping everything?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

Yeah, we're we're on uh hiatus between seasons. Season nine is gonna we're gonna start filming probably end of July, I would guess. Um and we ended the season finale was last night, so we ended on a on a pretty nice little cliffhanger. Okay. Where our um our uh one of our main agents away. He's he's going to uh sort of infiltrate this this uh black ops potentially. I don't know. We know we I don't think it's been maybe it's being written right now, but he's maybe so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

I've only just started watching it, so I've I'm uh I'm I'm starting it off from from day one, so I'm part way through the first two seasons at the moment. Oh wow, and uh it's a huge fun. I must say that the they've they kind of uh there's been a little a bunch of those where it was the fire service, uh similar sort of sequence, and then and then there was another one with either police or with um uh uh you know special ops in some shape or form and all of these type of things. FBI seems to have have um ticked a whole bunch of those boxes and then thought, well, we'll add a couple of bits here that you may not have seen before. I think it's quite entertaining to look at it. And and and you must be thrilled with it, uh the amount of work that you you know you generate not only for yourself but for everybody else on the show, but also for the the success of the show in the first place, the fact that it keeps going season after season and keeps coming back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

Yeah, what's cool is is the show, you know, it started off as a as a like a procedural, you know, uh with kind of just a couple of chases and a couple of rests. And we had a new writing team um join the show season seven. And I think they kind of took the show into more of an action drama, right? Which is great for me. I mean that's that's that's it's it's really I think when you have a show that's on eight seasons, you know, you you have to kind of uh change it up a little bit, right? You can't just have the same the same uh sort of formula every every week. So I think um adding drama by adding more action, putting our heroes in more precarious situations is sort of been what we've been doing. And and um yeah, it's been it's been a lot of fun. Um season seven, season eight, we've definitely raised the bar on action um quite a bit. I think the the first six seasons, we'd have like one or two fights in in the whole season. We'd rarely ever did fights. Now we do a fight every episode. Every week there's a brawl. Yeah. Um and uh it used to just be like chase, tackle, arrest, and now it's like chase, gunfight, fight, car chase, you know, motorcycle chase. There's you can see what the audience is at.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

They like the plot, they like the idea of the intrigue of the characters and and uh that interplay between those characters, but they still want a big face full of action on a fairly regular basis. And and obviously if you can see that from the script point of view and go, right, well, let's let's throw throw the kitchen sink at it and give them exactly what they're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

And I think what's great about a show like this is you know, you you with all the content out there, um it can be kind of daunting. I find it really daunting to start a new show, right? Like just to to find a show. Oh, have you seen this? Have you seen that? Let's let's let's let's uh start my wife and I like start a show and then there's a commitment of like four seasons. Um what I love about FBI is you don't have like you can just watch an episode one episode, you don't have to know what came before or came out of the episode. No, that's right. It's back to that old that old television um sort of formula of like each episode is its own standalone episode, and uh the it wraps up, it's you you find out who what what the crime is and you wrap it up by the end, and it's it's great, you know, it's very digestible.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:34

It is it's it is those old shows of of um you know not having to to really engage with with the characters or plot. You just have to turn up and go, right, entertain me for an hour, and that's exactly what it does, you know. Yeah, um, we started this whole thing talking about family and uh how you staying in New York, uh uh where the possibilities of of going out and working in LA because of family. And I suppose working on a on a show for nine seasons, it is a bit more like a family, you know. You know exactly what you're doing and who you're gonna be working with and how they fit in. And uh does this I know you you uh and certainly looking at your work, there's there's a great deal of television that you're you you've been involved in. Um you can't prefer it, but certainly at the present time and and from where you are and from that family understanding of of production, I mean it it must tick many boxes for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Yes, it does. I there was um there was a time where all I wanted to do was travel and do movies. You know, I I've done movies like overseas and and all over the country. And um honestly when when we started having when my wife and I started having kids and starting our own family, I think I touched on this earlier, um staying in town became a way more of a priority for me. Um and I've I've just seen how hard it is for people to travel and be away from their family. Um and so when FBI came along and it started, you know, season two, season three, I'm like, oh wow, this is this is actually like an incredible job for for for my life, for my family, for um just being able to the great thing about the job is we we rarely ever shoot nights. So I come I come home at you know at night and I get to see my kids um every day. And that's that's amazing. You know, I think that's hugely uh uh important for their lives and their development to to have dad around um every day. And um yeah, so so that that is one huge piece of the career that's really important to me. Plus, yeah, being on FBI itself and and having that family has been like such a blessing. I mean, like I I've I've made some really close friendships. Um we have a really unique way of shorthanding uh the the way we do things on set. Um it's a lot of trust, an incredible amount of trust. People people who come visit and day play on our on our set are are are are often blown away by how like sort of well oiled it is and how like how much trust because some some places can be toxic, you know. I I mean there's a lot of opinions that can really force their way into into like breaking down. But our for whatever reason our show is just the right combination of like people trusting each other and ideas can be heard and and you know, there of course are difficulties at times, but um but it kind of just becomes uh or it's sort of like a this beautiful little dance of like of like I want to do this. Okay, great. Well if you do that, then and then actors sort of chime in and then we everyone sort of like uh I don't know, it doesn't it doesn't feel like there's a lot of agenda pushing, I guess, is is what I'm saying. Just it feels like everyone's sort of there to like sort of make the best final product.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

I think that's true. I think um uh one of my great uh mentors was a stunt man called Roy Alon, um, who worked a lot with Vic uh in those early days. And um, he'd worked all over the world on Bond Pictures, on Superman movies, you name it, whatever he'd done. Um, but towards the last, and he died probably just the year you started in the business, I think 2006, 2007. Um and um he got himself involved in a television show called A Touch of Frost, which was uh a detective drama set in the north of England where he lived. And um he was given the option to do, oh come and do this uh movies here and there, and he said, No, I'm fine, I'm I'll just I'll just stick with this. And it went for like 10-15 seasons. Um and why? Because he could get home every night, you know. There was the importance of just over the years, you get to a stage where you go, I need to take a step back, and and I just need to, you know, do what I'm doing here and be able to do. And as you've said yourself, you get to go home, you get to see your wife and kids, and uh, and that's massively important, and very clearly uh makes your life a better thing and makes that will make their lives a better thing as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Yeah, I feel like I got I I at least got to um check some of the boxes of getting to do some big movies and getting to do some traveling around the world and and seeing that. So so I feel like that satisfied that that urge at least. So I know what that is, and and and it makes being on a local show um that much sweeter, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

Good. Well, Vic, it's been a joy. Um, I sincerely hope we get to do this again, uh, because there's huge quantities of topics that uh I I haven't been through yet. And I dare say that uh we'd we'd like to come back and maybe do some more with you if that's possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Um and um uh hopefully next year at some point. I am going to LA next year, but there's uh uh maybe a possibility of coming to New York. It would be lovely to uh to try and find you on set and watch you work. Um that would be great too. Um so uh um my my huge thanks to you, and uh I sincerely hope that you go from strength to strength.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been great.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:05

There we go. A great chat with Vic. Really enjoyed that, and I hope you did too. If you want to see the whole interview, then go over to YouTube on Friday and you'll be able to see it there. Until next time, it's bye for now.