JONATHAN COHEN - Making movies and memories

This week we chat with British Stunt Register member JONATHAN COHEN who has been pretty busy since joining in 1993.

here we chat about life before stunts, his director dad Norman and his musical inspirations....a mixed bag....

enjoy

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Hello and welcome to this week's look at the world of action and stunts on film and television. This week we talked to a stunt man stunt coordinator who's been on the British Stunt Register since the early 90s and has chalked up many performances on the big and small screen. We talked to Jonathan Cohen, whose father Norman was a very prolific director in the late 60s and early 70s, movies like Dad's Army in 71, three of the Confessions movies, Pop Performer, Driving Instructor, and Holiday Camp, and he's directed the film version of Spike Milligan's book Adolf Hitler, My Part in His Downfall in 1974. This gave Jonathan a greater understanding of filmmaking and perhaps a better idea about how he could be part of the business. The rest is history. And he gave me an abridged version when we chatted a few weeks back for this show. Here's our chat now, and I started by asking him about his dad and his truly fabulous track record. I've got a uh a couple of friends who do podcasts in relation to um uh comedy and they do uh classic British films, and um your old man crops up left, right, and centre because there was a period where absolutely prolific, you know, with the yeah the um absolutely and and sometimes you know it it's um for a start for me it's lovely because it means that he's always a constant.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, um, it's nice that as well as my own memories, that occasionally people will ask me questions about him or he'll come up in conversation, or um you know, like it it's interesting because like although obviously he did a lot of comedy, um like there were certain things he did, like he did a documentary called The London Nobody Knows, that's right, which James Mason narrated.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

It's a fascinating watch, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, and uh it's funny, it's like things like that, which you know um were very much in his early days when he was just you know creating the first opportunities to direct. Um uh it it became it became like quite a cult film. And um now I you know, like still I get calls. This must be what 50 plus years or 60 and yes, I would say so.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

50, 60 easy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, um, years on where I'm getting calls from like you know, cinemas wanting to do a talk on it and people wanting to screen it for different reasons and things like that. So, you know, it it it's lovely that that kind of keeps alive. I have a director, friend of mine, who's contacted me about wanting to do um a new kind of um like a London Nobody Knows revisited movie. Okay, you know, so there's there's um yeah, no, it's it's I'm I feel very, very proud and and happy that he was my dad and that I had that start in life, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Particularly with with the way we are now in the in the world of TikTok and stuff of that nature, and there are channels on there that devote themselves to finding new places in a big city that everybody knows. You but if you go here and go through that alleyway there, and then you discover this part, which is not a million miles away from what was happening in that uh in that movie that your father.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, um I I think it's just the fact that I mean he did one about Dublin as well called Brendan Bean's Dublin, and it it was um a few years ago I got asked to go and do a sort of introduce the film at the Irish Film Festival in Dublin and things like that. And it it's I think those things are so historic now, you know. Yeah, um that that just yeah, it it's it's very interesting to look back on, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

They are, and that there's there's a lot of retrospective in relation to the way in which your father worked within the business, and then the way in which you got into the business to can connect like Rocky's a really good example of a connection between the two. He was uh uh stunt arranger on Stand Up Virgin Soldiers, and so worked with your dad on a number of occasions. I know, I know, and then of course he was very inspirational getting you into the business.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

He was and he was, and for sure, it it was so nice that um it it's I don't know if you've come across the name Greg Smith, who was a producer. Yeah, he did a he did a lot of the confessions, he did this the the 39 steps with Robert Powell, um, and you know he he was again prolific in his day, Greg. And uh Greg then went on to produce um remember the stage show Buddy, yes, which was a huge hit, you know. So again, he diversified onto you know into the West End. But Greg and my dad were partners, and um yeah, I I met Rocky. I you know, I I we may have talked about this before, but I'm I met Rocky when I was working as a runner. Greg basically, when my dad passed away, Greg uh kind of took me under his wing and said, Look, you know, I'll get you into the uh the industry if you want. And I was like, Yeah, you know, so I I went in and worked for Greg and and was a runner, and I met Rocky one day on set, and um Rocky was uh, you know, again, lovely, full of stories and adventures and things like that. And he said to me, You know, you look like a fit lad. Have you ever thought about getting into stunts? And then um Greg bought me my first set of pads, and you know, I started training, and yeah, you know, that was that was many, many moons ago. But it's all it's all kind of loosely connected to the the route in with my dad, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

It is, it's it's fascinating. Um, I I I love the idea that that you you um you used to get picked up out of school in a taxi and then driven to wherever your dad was working, whatever location, often uh a film studio of some shape or form. Yeah, what were those days like uh you know, uh from going from the academic background and then going off uh in in the afternoon and going and watching your dad work? Was it just very much a simple case of oh, I'm just I'm just at dad's work? Or or could you look at it from a slightly larger point of view and go, wow, this is exciting? And and uh from a filmmaker's point of view, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I I think at that age, because I would only have been like um 11, 12, that sort of age, you know. So I was still pretty young, and I was, you know, like most kids, I was just into whatever I was into, you know, playing games and just mucking around. But I I think I I accepted that that it was almost like the norm just to uh go to the studios after school rather than go home.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Um I I suppose like a lot of kids that grow up in the industry, you you you do accept that that environment is just somewhere that you hang out, and that's where dad goes to work, whereas somebody else's dad might be in an office or you know, on an oil rig, or God knows, you know. That was that was just that's just where my dad went. And um, but the thing is, what was interesting is that my school, uh which was called Ibstock Place in Rohampton, um right on the corner of Richmond Park there, it it was a real sort of mishmash of um kids from different backgrounds, everything from like the local council estate right through to people like um I mean Peter Sellers' daughter was in the year above me, right? John Cleese's daughter was in the year below me. Uh we had people like um uh Pete Townsend's daughter Emma was in the school. You know, there was a there was a real like um Al Alan Parker, his daughter Lucy, right, who I'm still still in touch with. So there was a real who's who of entertainment industry kids.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

And um so I think probably what was happening to me wasn't that unusual. Okay, you know, it's just I was I just hung around film studios a lot.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Yeah. Yeah but because of that, it was just well, it's that's what dad does, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

And you know, like I I still kind of chuckle about it, but I'm sure one of the reasons my dad sent me to that school was probably he did his research and he saw there was a lot of contacts there. So put parents' evening was probably a good time to, you know, it's a meet and greet to work. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know how amazing Alan Parker was in his day, you know.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Absolutely, yeah, exactly. Very, very, uh, very influential, right across the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

And and also I think that um uh it's interesting that for what were you about 17-18 when you when you got the runners job?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Um uh well my so I I was basically after Ibstock where I was at school, I went to like um uh a um like a sixth form college, they used to call it. I don't know if they still call them those, called Kingsway, Princeton in King's Cross, where I was I went there to do film study as a as a sort of post- uh um yeah, I guess it would have been not O levels, but like yeah, like the equivalent of A levels. There they were running a course in film study anyway. So I went there to do film study and photography, and um it was during that time that we got the call, sadly, that my father had passed away while he was working in Los Angeles on a movie. So that used to happen a lot. He'd go away. Uh and I was um a mate of his called Terry, who was a cameraman, um, used to keep an eye on the house and sort of keep an eye on me. That's right. Anyway, so so basically, but so um we got this like life-changing news that that my dad had had these heart problems and you know, um collapsed on set one day um in Los Angeles where he was working, he was doing a movie out there. Um and then, you know, that because my mum and dad were divorced, my dad was my active parent.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Um, and being an only child, it was like quite um, you know, it was it was a massive, massive, massive change.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yes, it would be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

You know, certain things in life happen to everybody, right? For for whatever reason. And for me, that was my absolute black and white before and after, you know? So af afterwards, like everything went was turned upside down, we had to sell the house, we had you know, all kinds of different things happened. And going back to your question, I suppose I got the job from Greg as a runner probably about 1920, something like that.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

You know, it's it's so interesting though, the the connections that that still have started to come up, John. Like it's um you know, do you remember Robert Powell, the actor?

SPEAKER_03 11:18

I do indeed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Right. So I actually spoke to him a couple of months ago. Um, so Robert Powell read the kind of eulogy thing at my dad's funeral.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah, and read a lovely, you know, uh um thing about my dad, because he'd worked with my dad, and then um so uh that that's pretty much um uh early early late teens, early twenties, um connecting up with Greg, starting to be a runner in the studios. Um I you know, I much as a lot of stunt people may say, Oh yeah, since as lot as long far back as I can remember, I wanted to do stunts, that wasn't me. No, no, for me, I think um, like weirdly, my dad was always like discouraging me from doing dangerous stuff, you know, like when I said I wanted to get a motorbike when I was a kid or this or that, he was like, Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so my dad always wanted me to be a writer or a director. Yeah, he said thought those were the things I should work on. Um, but anyway, obviously that that changed in the new chapter of my life, and um uh I I found that getting through, you know, my way of grieving at the loss of my dad was was training. Right. You know, I was doing martial arts, I was doing weights, I was doing you know, different things, and I suppose finding a bit more of a kind of physical channeling was in some ways, I suppose, a positive way of dealing with my own issues, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

So I can see the two things tying up together. Your way of dealing with that, as you say, is is is training. Um and that's when I met Rocky. That's when you met Rocky, okay. And so he's thought, well, that's not bad. How far along the line were you? I mean, from a what would you joined in 93, didn't you? So um w were you were you already partway along the line in relation to the type of disciplines required? You still because back in 93 you'd still have to get an equity card as well, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, you had to get an equity card, you had to get six uh skills, as you need six skills now. But obviously, as you know, the the skill set is changing and that's constantly evolving. But basically, you know, we still had to work hard for two to four years, I would say, on average, to get skills. Um I I uh decided to like really sort of focus on getting those skills and my equity card at the same time. So pretty much full-time. I was working um uh again, another mate of my dad uh uh who was an accountant for Paul Raymond. Yeah, yeah, Paul Raymond. So so Paul Raymond had had a place um but but basically Carl Snitcher, uh who I am sure is not alive anymore, but he was he was Paul Raymond's accountant.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

And uh for some reason I was speaking to Carl or Greg Smith put me on to Carl, and Carl said, Well, I can give you an equity contract for being in one of our shows.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Right. So he had a place called Madame Jojo's, that was one of Paul Raymond's shows, uh Paul Raymond's venues, and they had like this kind of um uh burlesque kind of camp sort of show, like five nights a week, like really late at night from like 10 pm till about 2 pm 2 a.m. Uh, which was um they had uh drag drag I don't know what you call them, drag queens, drag queens. Well, yeah, I suppose they're still drag acts, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so they had some of those in it. They had a couple of guys like me that were supposed to be like the kind of chip and doe element, um, you know, dancing in our like shorts and boots and capes, you know. Um, and uh they were the obligatory eye candy for the person.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and we had um and we had also a couple of girls that were like singers, and it was just these these, yeah. Oh God, it's taking me back all this. The person that used to choreograph the shows was a drag queen called Ruby Venezuela.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Ruby Venezuela.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Ruby Venezuela.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Possibly not her own name or his own name.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah. God takes me back all this.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Ruby Venezuela, that's a cracking name, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, so basically five, five, six nights a week, I was going into the West End um in at night and doing these shows. I was doing door work in the evenings before the show, um with a with an agency.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Oh, you were fully active then, weren't you? Yeah, I had my doorwork.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And then basically during the day, I could do taekwondo, horse riding, trampolining, fencing, swimming, you know, the various things that I was training in to get ready for the stunt register. And because I had these this these shows, I it was an equity contract.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Right. So you've you ticked a bunch of boxes.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, so I managed to get through it all probably fairly quickly, about two years, I think, and then I finally got on the stunt register. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Well done.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Um the obviously everybody remembers their first job. I I'm not entirely convinced what was your first job because it was either on ID, um, which was a Reese Dinsdale picture, or either, depending on when it happened, or a thing called Death Machine. It was Death Machine, it was Death Machine, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Because I think I think I got ID with um do you know? I can't remember whether I did ID as an extra or in stunts. I actually can't remember because I'm pretty sure I did ID with Peter Pedrero.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

You're we may have been we may have been credited, you're credited as Jonathan Paul Cohen.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Which I think is the only time you're you're credited with uh with the middle name.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Okay, so yeah, I just I I I remember ID, but um my first job was definitely Death Machine because that was Stuart St. Paul.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Stuart St. Paul, right.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

And Stuart had a bit of a reputation back in those days for giving everybody their first job.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Well, that's true. Yep, no, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Um very grateful that he did because I had this like absolutely cool costume, you know. I was I was like this seven-foot-tall robot thing, cyborg that gets blown up, and this I remember it's just you know, and then this this big like metal door comes crashing down and it's supposed to land on me. And right, yeah, it's all it was all very exciting, you know. It was it, it was a really good first job at my.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

I mean, it it wasn't that long after that that you were involved in a number of pretty big pictures, as far as that was concerned. I mean, I suppose getting your feet in was the first thing. Um, and then you've got first night and Richard the third and um the jackal as well, but that was the that was the um Richard Gere Jackal, wasn't it? Uh or the Bruce Willis one, I should say.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Was that the bar sequence with you and uh Big George Cooper?

SPEAKER_01 19:04

And that's right, yeah. But that again, that's another name from the past, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yeah, yeah. Uh the what always fascinated me about um there's a couple of fascinating things, really. You've got certain names from the past. George Cooper's one, um, and Peter Braham's another. Um Peter Brahman wore glasses, Terry Forrester. All the time he would wear glasses, you know. Um, there's a lovely moment in Brannigan where he's he's doubling John Wayne doing some driving, and he's wearing glasses, but it's very clearly him, you know. It's just that but and George had that big handlebar moustache that's right.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

I know. Uh yeah, it's it's true actually, it's almost like it's almost like the characters of those days were such characters to some people that you always knew it was them in every movie.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Yeah, absolutely. It was always that moment when you thought, oh, they're so-and-so, oh, they're they're gonna die. You knew they weren't long for the movie. Yeah, yeah. Plummer and Forrestal turned up. You thought, Oh, there's trouble. Uh that they won't be long now. Yeah. Um, did you find sort of progressing along the uh the the career that that you knew that all right, as a performer, you know, you you were working for coordinators, um, you were getting some jobs to do, you were getting a lot of because you're also the other thing we touched on it briefly, but as an equity cardholder, you know, you're an actor, you have to act. Uh, you don't have to do that these days, you don't have to be an equity cardholder in order to get a job. But then you throw somebody dialogue and you immediately know whether they're comfortable doing it or not, and you always seem to be fairly comfortable doing it from that point of view. Did you find that because you you've got yourself a fair bunch of acting credits uh as well as stump performer credits? Did you find that came easy to you?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, I think I quite enjoyed it. Um uh I mean look, John, you you're in a band, yeah. I I'm in a band, you know, and I think that aspect of performing on stage is something it's either your thing or it's not your thing. Yeah. And I think if you quite like that, then you rise to the occasion if you're given lines to do. Doesn't mean you're gonna do a good job. But you know, I yeah, that that's never really bothered me. I I quite I quite liked it. And I I still find, you know, like I'm I'm not the sort of stunt person that has to watch action movies. I I'm probably more stimulated by watching movies where it's it's an actor that I admire doing a really meaty dialogue with that just captures you and brings you in, and you know, they could be just sat on a chair like we are now. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 21:50

As soon as they arrive on screen, you can't you can't take your eyes off them.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Absolutely. I mean that's you know, that's that's special, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah, absolutely. No, I see that.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

With a with a well written script and you know that. That's amazing. Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

But it I found it I always find it fascinating that that um because there there's always those stories about right, who wants to do this knockdown or and particularly in the old days when you you didn't get a chance to have a go at it first or anything of that nature. Right, who wants to do this fall down the stairs and you get a bunch of hands going up? And then uh when somebody would say, Right, I've got a bit of dialogue here, who wants it? And and the hands wouldn't go up and people would start walking backwards, because that's not what they got into the job for, you know, but you know full well that at some point you're gonna have to. And there were those ones you could throw a stick and go, they're really good, they do that really well, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, I thought maybe, maybe sort of some people would sometimes take the piss out of the stunt person that like is kind of like quite keen on doing dialogue. Well, you know, you're not an actor, mate. You know, no, yeah, you're a stunt man, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:49

You know, but hey, but then it's it's a double-edged sword because you get you get um uh you know actors who are really keen on doing a lot more action than maybe they should be doing, yeah. So it's a it swings around about it. Yeah. Um we obviously we we mentioned music there, and that was a a big inspiration in in your life. Um, who were you listening to uh back in those days that really sort of ticked a bunch of boxes for you? That's the direction I want to go in. I mean, uh it's it's been sort of rock orientated, really, but there's uh what other influences did you think at the time? That's nice, I like that. Could you listen to anything?

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah, within reason. I think I think everything has its I I think music and emotion and in a sense where you are in your personal journey in life, um, can all be very connected. Yeah. And I think there's times where we all want to put on lose yourself by Eminem because it gives everybody a bit of that swagger, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's like it's like I'm sort of like standing up against society, you know. There's I I grew up very much in the 80s, I suppose. So you know, I grew up listening to Bowie, Jiran Jiran, Depeche Mode. I was in a Depeche Mode cover band at school.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah, yeah, with a guy called Tim Simon on that then went on to become very successful being a producer with an act called Bomb the Bass. And oh right, yeah, weirdly went on to produce two Depeche Mode albums.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Really?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

How cool is that?

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Wow, that's full circle.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

That is maybe we need to maybe you need to get him on. Yeah, yes, maybe um, he's got his own his own story. Um, yeah, so so um yeah, I guess I guess sort of starting off a bit more electronic, but at the same time, I was still like I remember the album Led Zeppelin 2 from my childhood. I remember The Wall by Pink Floyd a lot, um Quadrafinia, yeah. Um yeah, lots and lots of different influences. I remember um yeah, uh yeah, quite quite diverse, the human league, and you know that that kind of 80s thing, but but I also feel like I've always loved Metallica. Um I I you know the big high-level rock shows are pretty much unbeatable to me. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Um seeing seeing those bands, seeing big bands anyway. Um, I mean, I I remember seeing Genesis for the first time, and it's just the most extraordinary stage show I'd seen for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah, yeah. I remember my dad taking me to the Stones at Wembley when I was a kid, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Um I saw I saw um Metallica when they did the black album at uh as it was still the Monsters of Rock Festival back then in '95. Um at Donnington before it became downloaded, and they were spectacular live. I'd never seen anything like it. Absolutely remarkable. Yeah, it was extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And just you realise so many good songs, so such a great stage presence, and as you say, an incredible um like stage show, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Yeah. And I find I find these days, if if if somebody were to look at some of my Spotify other other uh downloaded music options are available, but uh if uh people were to listen to some of my Spotify playlists, they'd go, Really? Do you you this is the sort of thing you're into? But it's only the fact that I'm a huge fan of melody. I really love a melody and I love a good hook. And uh if I'm if I'm feeling a little over self-indulgent, I like a good key change as well. Yeah, it really does make a big difference to what I'm listening to, but there's a whole bunch of stuff there that you think I like that. But you'd said that there was influences. Hetfield was a big influence to you, Dave Grohl was an influence to you as well, not necessarily always on a on a sort of musical basis or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Maybe I've got great memories of seeing the chili peppers and just amazing, like you know, amazing, just fun live shows. Yeah, I I guess I I'm less I'm less, and it's a generalization, but I'm less sort of motivated by pop, you know. Um there's not much nowadays that is stimulating, you know. I mean, I appreciate like guys like Youngblood, you know, really, really good, you know. Um, and there it there is there is sort of new stuff coming which is is good, but I'm just I'm so drawn by the stuff that I know that I love. Yes, you know, that I find gets me up in the morning and can drive me. But all also though, John, I I'm uh like I really like country as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Big resurgence at the minute, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, and there's a there's a guy called Ryan Bingham, if you haven't checked him out. So you remember the show Yellowstone?

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yeah, and uh Ryan Bingham was actually an actor in Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Um he's an actor who his character picks up the guitar and has a strum in front of the fire, and you know, that's kind of what he does.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Um, but uh yeah, he's a just really, really good singer-songwriter, and just worth checking out, Ryan Bingham.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

And then of course now you've got Ringo's just come out of the new album, which is country-based, you know, and T Burn Burnett doing all the all the producing, and it's absolutely strange.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

I just think I think with country music, with good country, I mean the country can be a bit cheesy, and I'm not so much into the cheesy country, but but I think um, you know, if it's good country, it's it's raw, it's it's about storytelling, which is I guess the way I like to write songs, you know. Um, it's quite often uh, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the term speech level singing, where it's almost like Donnie Cash was a speech-level singer, absolutely Leonard Cohen talking like this, and then the next thing he's singing, and it's all on the same, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Um but uh I yeah, I I love that storytelling kind of vibe, um, and especially if it's it's got uh an integrity to it, and you know, there's a lot of that in country music, and it you know, country and rock and roll are kind of really the same thing, aren't they?

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Uh one one one led out of the other, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

I mean exactly, you know, one's wearing a stets and one's not, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

But yeah, yeah. That whole thing is uh country influenced uh pretty much everybody as far as uh uh rock and roll was concerned, certainly, certainly as far as Elvis was concerned and beyond. So it's uh it's the whole thing. Um let's look at uh uh your work as as a coordinator. Let's look at how you operate as a coordinator. You're given a project um that you'd that you'd like to or that they'd like you to be involved in as a coordinator, as an action arranger. How do you break down that script when you've got it as far as those action beats are concerned? And and and do you do you do it differently to the way that you've seen it done, or do you you've you've now got a system that works for you? How do how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I quite like to have paper.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

You're you're an old-fashioned pen and paper person, right? Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah, I've you know, I've heard of some guys literally like scanning and feeding it into AI, you know, getting chat GBT today. And I mean it's like, whoa, you know, that's clever. Um, but uh I like to scribble. Okay, you know, and like to begin with, I I like to print a script out, and I like to have it's gonna make me sound like a six-year-old, but I like to have colour pens and I like to circle things, I like to arrow things, I like to highlight things, that kind of thing. And it I I just find I think when I'm learning anything, it it sort of it it starts off in a quite a broad fashion, and then I start to then compress it down to the actual morsels that need to be focused on, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Okay, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah, um and it yeah, it's really just it's I like to sort of have an overall view of the story and the vibe of the movie, but then I need to um obviously have uh like a a separate block which is just for the action.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Got it, okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

The bits that they're gonna involve me with. Yeah. Um and I I really then start to like it sometimes sometimes the action isn't described very well in the script. And you know, then then it's or or it it can be a bit ambiguous, or there's uh a variety of different ways that we can approach that scene. Yeah. Um so sometimes it will be a case of um a Zoom call rather like we're doing now with the director, and we'll talk through certain bits of the, you know, certain bits of the action. Yeah just uh just uh to sort of I I think there's you can never have enough input to what they want to see. Okay, you know, and the way I see it is the job of coordinator is then to take the vision of the creators and then come up with a way of handing that back to them in a way that they like the way it looks, you know. Um and sometimes it's a case of uh sometimes their uh imagination way is is kind of way too big for the amount of money they've got, you know. Um and other times they've just come up with something that um is very doable, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

So it's it's it could be one or the other, and you have to you have to look at that and go, well, that's I I can see what you're trying to do, but that's gonna cost you a great deal more than what's being offered as far as that stunt budget is concerned.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, or or I think I I I would try not to actually phrase it that way, but I think I'd like I've had conversations before where I would say, you know, I would love to give you this, yeah. And in order to do that, I'd like to bring in 15 stunt performers, right? Um, and three stunt riggers, uh, you know, and four fire safety.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

And then they start to go, oh, how much?

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Makes a difference, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah. So then uh, you know, quite often we'll work out a compromise whereby, okay, we could we could shoot a version of that scene with one stunt rigor, five stunt performers, and two fire safety, for example. Okay you know, you know what I mean. Um so so we just we we we sort of we we come up with uh a solution for that particular scene, and um yeah, you know, and all the time I'll have notes about each particular scene and uh who I'd like to bring in, um and how I would like to see it shot, safety considerations, you know, all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Do do you find that um I suppose it will depend very much on the production, but if you get the opportunity to do location recis, um are you then uh able to think this is a good play? Why don't we do this here and I could do that there? And suggesting things from the script to to the director uh and saying, look, this is an option here.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Uh yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, on a on a production that is flowing and there's a good vibe, it's sort of um there's very much that interaction with the DOP, with the director, with the producer, you know, and just how you know it should be teamwork at at HOD meetings, you know, it should be that everybody's input is being valued, is being considered, you know, and together we we kind of work out a plan that can work.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Um I think you know that the obviously it doesn't always go that smoothly just because sometimes there's clashes of personality, sometimes you know, somebody can be so single-minded about how they want it done that it doesn't really allow for much, you know, uh collaboration. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, but you know, most of the time I think you get there.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

You know, we all kind of want to be working, you know, we want to create a product that we're all proud of, you know.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Well, that's it. You've been asked on, you know. Um you you I suppose in certain cases with um certain productions, there are maybe a bunch of coordinators who are fighting to get that job. You know, that's they'd like to have that job, you know. Oh but if you've been if you've been approached and they want you to do it, then you you've got that um that light at the end of the tunnel is that goal that everyone wants to get that picture and get the shots right and get the sequencing right and make it flow and make it work.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, and you know, I look, I can only speak for myself. I you know, I I want to end up with a good product where everybody has stayed safe, everybody's got paid and paid the right money, um, you know, and we've all kind of left the job shaking hands and being happy.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Because you know, it it's like I mean, you you you know, you've been around it long enough, John. You know that that it can be incredibly long days, incredibly tiring, you know, like the film industry for people that don't understand it, that really don't understand that it can be feast or famine, you know, when we think we're really working. Even if we're not having a hard day at work, we still can be there like you know, 14 hours, right? You know, it's meant. So it's uh I I just yeah, I think on my jobs if I can keep a good a good sort of um momentum in in the work and just you know everybody's in in a good sort of state of mind, and just you know, yeah, I think that's important.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Uh question that that I did pitch to you before we did this. Um and it's it's a uh I found it an interesting question in the past with with others that that I've asked in relation to it, where there are three occasions in your career, either as a performer or as a coordinator, where you've done the job and you've looked at the job either on the monitor if it's option to do so, or after the edit and gone, you know, I've absolutely nailed that. I think that's really good. Or the performer from a coordinator's point of view, and you've gone, that's they've done a really, really good job there. Couldn't ask for any more. Are there moments, three moments that you could put your finger on and go, yep, I think we can use those?

SPEAKER_01 38:38

John, I would say every job I've ever done. Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Thank you, and good night.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Um of course every job.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah, even if that were the case, I think you're yeah, just it's yeah. Um, no, I I think uh yeah. I can give you three examples.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, just three examples that come to mind, and I shall tell you why.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Right, sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Um okay, Game of Thrones, I think it was season two. Um I had a fight with the hound. Do you remember Rory, the actor that played the hound?

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Oh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah. Half his face was slightly burned in the that's right. Yeah, yeah. About all six of eight of him or whatever he was. Big land, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, big land. So um Paul Herbert was the coordinator and uh sent me over to Croatia for several weeks. Um thank you, Paul. It was uh had a wonderful time out there. Lovely place to work, Dubrovnik.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Um and um I was gonna ask, what was it about that that that um was it because of the choreography and the and the and the way in which you had to work?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Well, so so pretty much uh I'll I'll tell you. Um so I had to do a fight with the hound on the battlements, um, and then in the final move he hits me with a mace, right? Then sends me over the battlements. And uh so I do the fall, and then the director also wanted to see me faceplant into the ground. Okay, so we had to create that, obviously, with several shots. Um, and then I get dragged away with blood coming out of my helmet.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

And when I actually saw it, I think they used it in the in the trailer for season two.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Um, and when I when I saw it, I was just really happy with the the overall piece of footage, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Final edit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Yeah, and I I I think because it it ended up they wanted to see a hard hit, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Um and it is a hard hit, I mean there's no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah, it is a hard hit, yeah. And I was wearing a suit of armour, um, so I was sort of limited to to uh I suppose how might how much I can create in in you know exciting shapes.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yes, the physicality of it.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, um I had to move in a certain way because I didn't really have a choice, right? Um, but I I think that was just one example where I looked at it afterwards and I just thought, yeah, you know, like I'm I'm proud of having done this piece and um you know glad that glad that I was offered that job.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

And as you're being dragged away, it does look as though there is gallons of stuff being poured out through the visor at the front, and you're being dragged away. I mean it there's it's it's pretty graphic, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean the the fall itself was into boxes, and then as I say, because the director wanted a very specific um end to the fall, I then had to jump off a platform, literally belly flop onto my onto my um front in the armor, um, which you know genuinely did take the wind out of me, yeah, absolutely, and then get dragged dragged away. But I just thought, you know, collectively the scene really worked.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Okay, you know, it was really good. So that so that was one as a performer.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Okay, that's performer. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Second one, particularly happy with the outcome. Um uh so couple as coordinator, um little story around killing Eve. I was coordinating with uh Jody and Sandra, um, where so it was just it was a scene, it wasn't what I would call a big stunt, but basically um Sandra had to slap Jodie in the scene.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yes, yes, I remember this scene.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Had to slap her around the face, and um it was just I suppose it was an interesting moment as a coordinator because Sandra came up to me in the morning and said, Look, uh I've got to slap Jodie around the face and I'm worried about it. You know, um I don't really want to do it. Is there a way we can shoot this in a way to look like she's been slapped around the face?

SPEAKER_04 43:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

And I said, yeah, I said, absolutely, you know, there's a way we can we can shoot it from an angle, you know, over the shoulder to make it look like the slap is you know, hard but actually, yeah. Right. And then about half an hour later, Jodie came up to me and said, Um, I know Sandra has to slap me. And she said, um I said, absolutely, and I said, Um, you know, don't concern yourself, we've got a way to do this so that you don't need to have any impact on your face. Um and uh the director was Also concerned that day because the director didn't want any marks on Jodie's face.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Right, understandably.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

God forbid a nail cuts her, or she ends up with a little bruise, or you know, there's all sorts of implications, obviously. Yeah. Um and Jodie said to me, Jodie being Jodie, said to me, um I'd really like Sandra to slap me.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

And I'd like it to be hard. So you know, so that then I've you know, I'm in that sort of you're you're in a quandary then, aren't you? Yeah, I mean that stun coordinator position. Yeah, just thinking, can I find a friend? So you know, yes, what options are we? Yeah. And um, so I then I I had a bit of time then where I took both of the cast members away, we went to a room and we had a chat, first of all. And then um, cut a long story short, we ended up doing the slap for real, and um uh Sandra slapped me several times in that little room, and we spent quite a lot of time with me, getting quite a red face, I may add. Um, with Sandra slapping me and slapping me and slapping me and slapping me and slapping me, and then doing slow ones on Jodie, just so that we could feel how to do it with a relaxed hand, that um Jodie may get a little bit of redness on her face. But Jodie was absolutely adamant, and Jodie went to the director and said, Look, I'd really like this slap to be real, and then I went to the director and said it doesn't have to be real. And I'm telling you from my with my stunt coordinator hat on, we can absolutely shoot this so there doesn't need to be any contact. But you know, respect to Jody. Um, this is what she's saying, and uh so we did shoot it for real, and we shot a real slap, you know. Um, but again, it was an example as a coordinator where I thought it was quite an interesting moment where I was happy that the outcome was that everybody was happy from a creative point of view, um, the actors were happy and there was no damage to anybody.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

No, because it just it would have been it would have been really complicated if if um Sandra and the director had said, no, that's fine, we can do it without contact. Jody's adamant, and nobody would change their mind. Yeah, that that would then you find yourself in an issue.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

But isn't that isn't that every day at work, John?

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Yeah, well, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Those little moments. I I suppose the thing is, you know, in the end, we sort of uh Jody wanted that for her acting. Do you understand? You know, to create the drama and to be able to respond to that slap, she wanted to be slapped.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

She needed that impact.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

And I respected that, and I you know, I think what we ended up with again when I um, as well as just being um the actual the action of it, when I saw it on the monitor, I thought it looked great, and you know, I was happy that everybody was happy.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

It's interesting that she's uh I mean, that was possibly the first thing that that people really saw her in as a major character, and uh how it changed her career completely.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Wasn't it? But wasn't she good?

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Oh god, she was extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

She's just magnetic, yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

Again, that thing we were talking about about not being able to take your eyes off somebody on screen, but they walk on, they change the scene completely.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

She doesn't absolutely, and you know, she's I I just loved the way in that show, the way she literally could become anybody.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

A chameleon is what she is, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, she'll take anything on brilliant. Okay, so Killing Eve, the slap, that's the second what's your third one then, friend?

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah, I I suppose I was just thinking of something more recent. Um, I got a call to go and coordinate um an actor being on the roof of a building.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

And um literally that was the brief. So we've got an actor going up through a through a trapdoor who's got to be on the roof of the building, completely exposed, a couple of hundred feet up, um, on a dome. You know, so obviously my mind is thinking, okay, it's you know, there's certainly considerations straight away.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Um we've got this actor going up there. Um, I don't know who this actor is. You know, is it a young, you know, somebody that hasn't got a lot of experience? Are they terrified of heights? You know, there's so many questions. Um and uh they there's a drone shot of the drone basically take the the drone takes off from a lower level um and then needs to um fly down towards the actor and be about eight feet away from his face while the actor delivers some dialogue.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Um and again, going back to your early question of how did I approach the script, of course, you know, first thing I wanted to do is make some notes, do some scribbling, um, just think about the things that came to mind that that were considerations.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

You know, yeah. Um so I decided I wanted to have a rigor with me. Um and uh we went and recceed the building. Um and at that point I was told, and this whole thing was happening within like three days of the phone call. I mean, it was all super boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I was told the actor was Tom Cruise.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

It does change things slightly.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Slightly, yeah. And and it's it's so interesting you say that because the look that you've got on your face now is exactly the look I had on your face as well. Yeah, it's kind of like I mean, let's say it was somebody that's just come out of drama school. I mean, okay, I don't want them to have an accident. Um, you know, I don't want Tom Cruise to have an accident either. But something about saying it's Tom Cruise, and you go, oh, okay. Right. So I suppose the difference is, you know, if you're working with a big star like an A-lister, um, things the dynamic is going to be slightly different. Perhaps the actor isn't going to take my advice so much.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Um you know, and as we know from Tom Cruise, he's very much an actor that knows what he wants and runs the show. You know? And you know, respect to him. He's earned his stripes, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 50:40

Um certainly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Yeah. Um, you know, I spoke to uh I I basically, as I say, I brought in a rigor, um, and I had to go and have a recce, have a meeting with the um with the crew, and we basically one of the one of the interesting things was this this was shot on top of the IMAX cinema.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

The IMAX at Waterloo, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Yeah. And one of the interesting things about it is the route to get to the roof is probably more hazardous than being on the roof. So there's there's a whole kind of like uh rabbit warren of rabbit exactly of like iron ladders and things you gotta go under and over and crawl through, and you know, it's like a it's a bit like the Royal Marines kind of assault course to get to the roof. To cut a long story short, everything had to be obviously planned, every scenario had to be planned and looked at. Many, many options to clip Tom in and out of harnesses at certain points, right? Um, considering the wind, considering weather changes, you know, all those factors. Um, I got up onto the roof the first day, and uh it is a very exposed place. Yes, you know, um there's there's nothing to grab if you suddenly feel a bit shaky or you get lightheaded or you know, go for a bit of what. But you know, we also know um so I suppose it's an interesting one because we're we're dealing with I need to sort of babysit and and wrap in cotton wool, my actor. However, my actor is very much uh how can I put it? He knows what he wants, and there's only you know, if he says he's gonna do something a certain way, he'll do it a certain way. Right. So I had to basically uh make sure that everything that was I was recommending was recorded between my rigor and I. Yeah. And you know, the director, and there was a lot of communication about I would like this to happen. I would like to clip Tom in here, I would like to unclip him here. Okay, I would like a mat underneath the ladder here in case he was to slip, etc. etc. etc.

SPEAKER_04 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

However, um, when we got to the actual shot, as expected, uh it was swift. Tom and I went up onto the roof together, and uh he was very much in control of how he wanted things to be. Having said that, he was also very respectful of the fact that he knew I was there as a coordinator, he knew that I had a job to do. Um, and of course, Wade Eastwood is you know Tom's pal and worked with him on all the Mission Impossible films. And you know, I was I was glad to have been able to go in on the last mission as well with Wade and Tom.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

And um, you know, it was nice that he remembered me from a scene we did together on that, you know, it was lovely. Um, but it I suppose I suppose, John, to to to try and um wind up that that question you asked me, it was just it was one that I was very happy that it looked great. Uh again, it was a very quick setup um in terms of we had three days to kind of put this together.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Wasn't it for was it the the opening of the BAFTAs or it was the it was a or or the uh well funny enough, the BAFTA were going on at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

I I didn't know that it was an introduction for that or for the Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

It was the promotional tour for the movie. For the movie, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

UK the whole world. We cannot wait to share Mission Impossible, the final reckoning with you all. Now make the fuse for the last mission.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Um and um as I say, I saw all the footage afterwards. Uh I had access to the drone footage, and you know, it it looked great.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Uh and and Tom was super happy. Um, you know, and and the whole thing just looked good and it and it went really smoothly. So I suppose I I suppose the reason why I picked that one to answer your question is just because it all happened fast, um, in terms of from the first getting the call to going in and wrecking it two days later, going up on the roof, you know, um, to finding out who the actor was. Um some people saying, Oh, you know, it can be a bit difficult with that actor and things like that. But honestly, it went great. And I was really happy with the whole. And funny enough, they've just called me. What what I was messaging about, they've just called me in for another job, the same production company.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

So um, just you know, five minutes ago. So that was that was interesting. But it it was, yeah, it was it was I was gonna ask just what what was interesting in relation to that.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

We did touch briefly on on the early part of that story in relation to um, you know, uh you didn't know who your actor was, and it could be somebody who's come out of drama school and it's their first job and whatever the deal is. And then when you realised it was Tom Cruise, that puts a different slant on it because you know, well, he's clearly got plenty of experience doing what he's doing. He's also a very active individual, he's been referred to by many uh in and out of the business as you know uh actor slash stunt man, you know, very capable of doing it.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Yeah, he's done more stunts than than 99.9% of stunt people would ever be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

But also what you said there was that even though um you were the coordinator and you're there to make sure from a safety point of view and to make sure everything's happy, there was still an element of him being in charge.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Yeah, and it's you know, it's an interesting dynamic. I mean, you know, at what point was I gonna have to say, Tom, with respect, you can't do that, yes, exactly. You know, and I was just grateful that we didn't quite get to that, yeah, because I was trying to tick every box for safety um to enable the production company to get the shots that they wanted, yeah. Um, but at the same time, as you said, I'm also working with you know, probably the biggest actor slash you know, action star that there is.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Yep, absolutely. It's it's extraordinary, isn't it? That um yeah, I mean, uh uh I love the Mission Impossible movies, I love what Tom Cruise does. Um, I think he's a remarkable individual, and and I love the work that Wade does, and Wade's very experienced doing what he does. But incredible, you know, you you have your heart in your mouth every once in a while going, really? Uh surely there's a way of being able to do this without actually having him under that plane or without actually having him doing this and this. Uh it's extraordinary, isn't it? Because it sort of takes away from everything from from your point of view as a coordinator to go, wait a minute, I'm trying to keep this bloke safe.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

And yes, you had Wade on this yet.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

Yeah, you know, have you had Wade on not not yet? No, he's he's he'd be a great one too.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

He would be great. He's doing it, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 58:23

Yeah, and he's he's busy all over the place doing all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

But uh, but you know, I think like I remember chatting to Wade on mission, and and like I said to him, you know, what was it like when Tom was you know going off that ramp on the motorbike and things like that? And Wade was just saying, you know, nerve-wracking. Yeah, because you know, you you you try, and uh this goes back even just to the roof of the IMAX, but as a stunt coordinator, you feel responsible for people's safety, yeah, right? And if something goes wrong, it's on you, somebody's gonna be looking at the stunt coordinator, yeah. And and it's like, you know, I mean, Wade, you know, Wade would know far more than I do, but I I I just think it's I think it it's just it's such an interesting sort of position to be in where it's that dynamic between, you know, you want to do absolutely everything you can to keep the person as safe as possible, but you've got to deliver the shot and also still listen to what people have to say. You can't just say, fuck you, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

No, no, exactly. But what's very interesting we do is adult.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Yeah, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

What's very interesting with Tom, uh, in in respect of maybe other actors, is where they will have doubles who will jump in and do the stuff that they're supposed to do and let the actor then do the close-up. What Tom does is he gets his stunt man, Casey O'Neill, to test everything, you know, to the to the point where there is find the flaw in this and work it out and sort it out, and then for hit for Casey to go back and go, it's good, you know, the rigging's excellent, we're all fine. You can get on this and you can do that. And it's a weird way of doing it, but it works for them, you know. Yeah, um, so it's uh very interesting to look at it from that point of view.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

But yeah, that's very much, very much so. Um, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Good stuff. Well done for cracking that one up. That's lovely. So three good examples there, um, of uh of you doing that thing you do, and most importantly, uh looking at it and going, Yes, uh that's really good. I couldn't have done any better. We got the result, and everything looks fabulous.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah, you know, and that that's as we said, um John, that's a combination of reasons, you know, being happy with the footage, you know, um no injuries, yeah. Uh, and just yeah, just everybody goes home pleased.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

Also, that what's what's uh what's also nice is that after the edit you've gone, oh that's good, because there's how many times have you you've been involved in something in the edit, and you've been absolutely mugged in the edit uh because it's come from a different angle, oh they've missed the whole thing, and that's the point of that's gone, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Yeah, yeah, or even the way something's shot even before the edit, you know, it's like you kind of like you do something that could look really exciting, yeah, and you kind of you look at it on the monitor and go, really, guys, you know, but they're sorry, got to move on now.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Not going to work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, on the roof of the IMAX, I wanted to have a double, yeah. Because I said we can line up all the shots with the double. I said if we have any, um, you know, if we have anything sort of with the drone circling that maybe from the back, you know. I said, I've got a guy, looks you know, he's a good good double for Tom, and you know, he can be up there all day. And uh all this was filtered through at the beginning, and what I got back was from his crew was like, no, no double.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

Yeah, okay. All right, fair. Make it work. If that's the deal, so be it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Um look, uh JC, thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. It's been an absolute joy talking to you. And uh I sincerely hope we get a chance to do it all again um in uh in other capacity, but uh uh lots of love and I wish you all the very best.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

All right, John. Nice to talk to you.

unknown 1:02:07

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Catch up soon. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:10

Well, there you go. Jonathan Cohen in fine form there, and hopefully you'll come away from this knowing much more about him. We'll be back next week with more of the same, so until then, it's bye for now.