SUPERMAN 3 - with PAUL WESTON

It's my first experience of Superman on the big screen and 1983 was proving to be a very good year. Two Bonds and a third installment of not only Superman but Star Wars too...great days

Here we chat with stunt coordinator Paul Weston about how he created the action on Superman 3 and he gives us a few behind the scenes tidbits 

Also click this link if you've bought Paul's book 'Falling Into Film' and haven't left an Amazon review yet....this is important for the popularity of the book...thanks you

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Falling-Into-Film-Stuntmans-Adventures/dp/1919500006#:~:text=A%20real%20treat%20to%20understand%20what%20goes%20on%20behind%20the%20scenes&text=Really%20excited%20to%20get%20into,unique%20perspective%20of%20a%20stuntman.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Hello and welcome to this week's look at the world of action and stunts on film and television. Back in 1978, we watched open-mouthed as we saw a comic book hero come to life with such realism. We actually believed we'd just seen a man fly. Well, the success of Superman the movie gave us three more movie adventures with actor Christopher Reeve, the man who embodied the character more than any of the actors who took on the cape and boots in the subsequent films. The first two movies were filmed back to back, with Richard Donner being replaced part way through the second by Richard Lester, who was definitely under instruction to produce a funnier movie than the first one. Lester was asked back again to direct Superman III, and this was my first experience of the Caped Crusader. Seeing it in Dublin in 1983, it was a wonderful feast for my eleven-year-old eyes. The character of Superman was everything I'd been told he'd be, and quite a bit more as well to discover. For those who aren't as familiar, is the trailer.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

When it's time for adventure.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Was he always directing uh Superman 3? I suppose he was after after two. Was it probably first choice? Was he?

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah, Richard Lester was always going to take over uh uh from uh uh Richard Donner.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Donner, Dick Donner, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah, Dick Donner. Um when they were having problems, Dick Donner and the Sulkins, um, the Sulkins brought in uh Richard Lester because they've worked with him before, they knew that he was uh he would shoot the schedule. Yeah. Uh and that's what they were worried about is that the trying to do one and two at the same time was getting out of hand and the budget was was over the top, and uh so they then decided, and we all found out that they were trying to make two movies at one time. Um so there was lots of complaints, and then uh they decided to finish two, uh one uh and shelve two for another time. Right. Uh that's when uh Richard Lester was there and he was organizing that uh for uh Superman 2, and I think he was always on the cards to do Superman 2 and 3 because they they could control him. Uh he was uh a very adequate um direct director who uh would was always mindful of the budget and the and the schedule.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah, lots of stuff, even on television when he was doing his television work in the 60s, uh and then the um the Goons projects and other bits and pieces that so early pieces of work that he was doing, he was always regarded as the guy, what when do you want to out buy and how much we got to spend? Well, uh Dick Lester's your man, isn't he? He'll come in probably under, to be fair, and save you a bit of money. So um I can see the sense in that. Um also the thing, as far as that was concerned, is that you very rarely get movies which are as successful, the sequels are as successful as the opening picture. Superman and Superman 2 are two very good examples of movies that were really sort of tailgating each other as far as quality and box office return was concerned. They really enjoyed the first one, they really enjoyed the second one. Um, and it's that tricky third album, isn't it? You know, it's the it's the the one we go, well, we've done it twice, let's have a crack at having another go. So, logical suggestion there is Dick Lester to direct. Were you always on board as well? Uh, how how late down did you arrive, or were you asked to be involved?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Uh I was um obviously on the flying unit on Superman 1. Yep. Um, so we did all the flying and trying to make a man fly in uh in in the dark for about uh seven months. I think we were um uh in uh 007 uh in A stage mainly, uh trying to make a man fly. But I had worked with um Dick Lester when I sang with the Beatles on Help. Oh, that's right, yes. He was a director. Um I worked with him on um uh the writs, um, and I realized just how fast he was uh as a director. Um for uh a two-shot, he would have um a wide angle, the the two shot, he would put another camera on a single, another camera on a single. Do it all at the same time, all at the same time. Uh and it was done. I mean, he would he was the fastest director I've I've worked with in terms of knowing exactly what he wants, uh uh and editing in his head and just doing it, just we've got the shots. Um so he was very quick, and I was I got on well with him. Um so I was um really uh glad to to do uh three with him. Two went well, um uh we really enjoyed it. I played uh you know the astronauts that got uh his badge torn off by us. Um and uh little scenes like that with um with uh I had Kieran Shah uh as a prospective uh uh uh uh uh double for uh the other astronaut.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So I uh because we had a diminished set you could put him in the background, um we had him I had him in walking r past the um the uh space uh m module to make it look you know a large size. And I said to him, Kieran, you're on the moon, so just do nice slow steps, uh uh as though you you're partly weightless. Right. And so I was in foreground doing the scene with with Ursa, and when I saw the rushes, there's Kieran doing very slow steps, uh like he was creeping.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

He's only got little legs, give him some slack.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

But yeah, it was very good. So yeah, the Superman 2. Um uh we enjoyed I enjoyed working with uh uh Richard on this on that one. Um because I I knew he was up against it. I mean all the actors but would have preferred uh Richard Donner uh to direct. But um that wasn't to be and uh they just had to accept, you know, that there was their contract there to accept um what director the producers gave them. So uh I think they you know they got through it and uh it was a good second second movie, as you say, of a sequel that worked out.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Yeah, no, it was it was extraordinarily successful. Um and I say on on the strength of that, then you've got this third picture. Um what stage were you were you were you there and how much of of the um uh were you there for all of the location scouting and uh all of that sort of stuff as well, or or were you when you looked through the script when they gave you that at the first stage, were they that those action sequences kind of mapped out, or did it just leave it very vague and leave it up to you to try and fill those gaps?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah, the the locations were uh were chosen for for Calgary and uh where we could you know take over a town, really. Yes, yes. Um with the flying sequences. Um so yeah, I I was there and I went to to look uh all the locations um and I had to choose. We were sitting having a uh uh production meeting months before we started the movie, and we're sitting there, and everyone sits around at the ballroom table uh uh boardroom uh and you've got your notes and you you uh somebody reads the script and each scene is broken down to who's doing what in what scene. Every department, whether it's the art department, uh special effects, if there's wire work, if there's um uh special um um uh scenes that are needed, um then each department has to put their input into uh making that scene work.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Uh maybe costumes, you know, has to be torn away or whatever. Um so we were sitting there and we were quite away through the script and uh uh uh Richard Lester uh looked up and said, Yeah, uh Paul is like a bit of action at this time. What can you what can you give us? Um now they're on the top of the skyscraper uh with um the villain's um villain's layer uh his uh ski slope and the snow and everything. Uh he said uh what action can you give us? So I said, Well, uh to make up something uh on the on the uh on the spot. I said, Well, uh if he's telling um uh uh the villain about uh uh uh what's his name? Uh Vaughn. Um yeah, Robert Vaughan. Robert Vaughan, who was a villain. Uh and he said, if I said if he's t telling the story, if he takes a uh red uh stablecloth, puts it around his shoulders, puts the skis on, and he starts to walk up the slope telling how Superman flew round the world, if he was to lose his balance and slide down the slope, go through crash through the barrier and fall uh 300 feet, but land on a sloping roof, he could land on it like a ski slope, right, and land in the road, and uh a couple of cars come in to skid to hawk. Um and he thought for a minute, he said, Yeah, okay, make that work. So that was it. So now when I got to uh go to locations, I've got to find a uh uh skyscraper that we can say is uh it um Robert Warren's lair, uh his uh his offices, uh, and I've gotta find a sloping roof so that uh uh a slant guy can land on it.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

So I I looked around and found it, and obviously in those days we couldn't get rid of wires. So if I was gonna put the the man coming out through the barrier and and which we could shoot in the studio, yes, uh double going over the the uh through the rail, um now I've got to match that in the in uh in Calgary, uh and we couldn't get rid of wires. So what I was trying to do is find a building that was the right height, and uh it didn't matter about the sloping roof, I'd have to find that elsewhere. But I had to find um a building that looked right, and I could hide the wire, the descending wire, because uh descender, do you know the descender? That's right.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Was it a fan ascender or was it the descender? It was a fan ascender, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah. So it meant that the um when the fan descender goes and the cable comes off and the guys on the cable, um, we got to get rid of that cable somehow. Right. And we didn't have the technology in those days uh even to roll us roller scope it out. So I had to line it up against uh the windows.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

It's just so the frame of the windows going down to C, right.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

So and so I was um uh limited by the angle uh that I could shoot that at um to to lose the wire. So I found the building and I thought this this is okay. Now I've got to find a a a place where um he can land on a an actual glass roof. Um before I left the studios, um the uh art department said you can find any location you can, but it he's got to be going right to left. Because that's a scene in the in the studio. Oh I shouldn't see. So it's got to be going uh right to left. So I found my left uh the k the uh high fall uh right to left. Now I've got to find uh a uh sloping roof that I can shoot uh right to left. Uh I looked everywhere and the only one I could find is I had to to shoot it left to right.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Left to right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Because there was a a brick wall and there was it just didn't work. So um I I rang up uh uh the uh uh the editing department and said look if I shoot this, you know, left to right, can you flop it? Uh and I said yeah, no problem. So uh we found the um I found a restaurant that I could do that left and right. Um also I could get a camera underneath looking up. Catching and coming across the top, right. It goes across the top. And had to make sure that the roof could take the weight of a man jumping, because I wanted um Greg uh Eli to uh to jump up in the air and land as though he's just landed and then you go. Um so I did that and uh I had him coming off the shot from the inside and the side, which I had to flop. Um uh coming off the roof and then uh in the street. I um I had him come into sloping down uh coming down the slope uh and then go past camera and I'd him landing in the in the street with two cars that's right skidding to a halt and he sort of just walks away on his skis.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

It's a brilliant sequence, it really is. And and and and uh this is the type of this is what's always fascinating about these type of movies, is that there's an idea that's come up out of a suggestion that you've done off the top of your head, effectively, which the director's gone, brilliant, away you go, Paul, and you've gone, uh right. And then you've had to go off and think, okay, I've got to try and make this real, and with a whole bunch of different elements, including the the the set that's being built of um uh Robert Vaughan's little lair in the studio, which I think was actually the base was a real dry ski slope, which they built on uh in the studio for uh I don't know how long I think about 11 weeks, I think it they said something in in relation to the construction of it. Um and it's um uh Epsom salts was the best type of snow that they could find to cover it and make it look real. So huge lengths going to uh the job in Calgary, Greg Elam jumping from that is and the shot you see in the film because of the the the the the tablecloth flapping, you don't see that because of where you've positioned the camera and where you've got everything look that's magnificent too. In this little making of documentary, there's a lovely moment of Mark Boyle uh watching and and and giving Greg uh he's he's his sort of stop at the bottom of this little slope where he's going through it and going through it, and at the end just managing to try and stand up all the way to the bottom before falling over. So there's lots of many, many elements to come in, and it's a really, really clever sequence. Then, of course, you've got Richard Pryor walking in the street with the sticks and looking up and going and doing that thing he does, you know. But it's such a clever moment based out of nothing at all. You must be incredibly proud of that when you looked at it. I mean, the edit's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

It yeah, I I was proud that it edited it together quite well. Yeah, great. Um, but I'll always uh admire the courage of um Greg Eland because when you were 307 feet, we were up on that, and we had a uh a rig over the top uh for the cable to go out on. But Greg had to sit on the edge um and he's on one cable and wait. And wait until looking straight down, uh had a uh enormous crash um airbag there down there just in case. But um I knew he wouldn't use it. I mean, you you don't the the centre slows you down at the bottom at the bottom. Um but for his courage to be sitting there, and I said, Greg, the the first foot you're gonna drop out because you've got to drop first and then swing, and I've got to level him up so he's he's facing the right way. Yeah. So he's tend to swing on the on the cable. I said the first two feet or foot so that you're gonna jump fall out will like feel like fifty feet. Just can take it easy. I'm gonna straighten you up and uh you'll be ready to go. But can you imagine just slip slipping off your your bum off the edge and then just dropping directly dropping that's um unbelievable, isn't it? Having to wait there and uh be guided and then and on action uh just let it go.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

I mean, huge, huge credit to to Greg for doing that. And not only that, but um there's a a website, I think it's called Cape uh Cape Wonder or Cape Crusader, and they they cover a great many of the of the Superman adventures, not only on film but on television as well. And there's some wonderful footage. That airbag shot you were talking about, there is a still of the building Greg part way down and the airbag at the bottom ready just in case. Uh, but also to his credit, um uh he's always said that it's one of his favourite jobs, one of his great jobs. Really he's been involved in so many different productions the world over, but he always puts that on his top ten list as one of those great moments where he said, I was in a superman picture, I got to do this. Um, so uh it it it affects people in different ways, absolutely. And again, while we're talking about Calgary, that opening sequence, uh which I and I must say, when when I got uh the video, uh I got it on VHS years later, and um I would spend hours just watching the opening sequence, running it back, watching it again, and it's not just I mean, uh admittedly that Roy's thing in the car is fascinating, and I've always loved it. And whenever I've spoken to him, it's been wonderful. Uh, and and different memories that keep coming back, but it's everything else. There is so much wonderful slapstick involved in the whole nine yards. Um, there's Christopher Reeves magnificent timing of catching a pie and throw just moving his arm and getting it into somebody's face. The penguins, the the the Bob Todd being Bob Todd, you know, and doing those lovely moments. Everything is absolutely to the last detail. Of course, it starts with that with the terrific roller skating sequence. The thing I think I saw, I think I saw something very similar either on a on an airplane movie or something like that. Somebody runs into it and they all fall over. But that's what it reminds me. How did that gag come about and the idea of trying to create that much carnage in just those few moments on screen and how to get away with it?

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah, I think that was all down to uh Richard Lester. I mean, that's his goon type uh vision of uh an opening sequence uh put in every slapsick gag. Some people thought he was over the top, unnecessary, um, but it did the titles wonderfully.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Wonderful title sequence.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

And each sequence he had he knew exactly what he wanted out of uh the actors, you know. Um uh Graham Stark with the um Road Um stepping on um uh Guy's head. Uh yeah, just yeah, every bit was worked out exactly as he wanted it, and we just had to make sure we could get it make it happen for him. Uh like Tracy on the roller skates uh and uh uh Mark Boyle and um uh uh Reg Harding, I'm in a fight over the petrol.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Oh yes, yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

But that was in the opening sequence, I think. Yeah, but um uh but yeah, they would every gag uh and the um uh the uh penguins uh just uh making everything work was uh was the biggest uh my biggest problem is uh uh making it work and work safely. The um the Mark Boyle playing the um uh police uh the uh robber.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Oh that's right, sliding down. That was really nice. I like I love that. That was how how long did that take to rehearse? I mean obviously the location was chosen, as you said, in in advance, but it looked like it was really very, very smooth as silk. He jumps up, he slides down, he jumps off, he slides down the next bit onto the road and away in uh in that distance. It was uh it looked like it wasn't many takes at all.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

No. Um I I I can't remember it it that was the opening sequence where the car gets stuck, Roy gets stuck on the uh That's right, yeah, on the fire hydrant. Uh well we worked all that out and we uh we uh I had a special uh uh ramp that dropped down. But yeah, we had to work out every act every uh action had to be uh uh meticulously worked out to to get that car onto that uh onto a a pump.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

But the funny thing about that is that we blocked off the streets because we had the car coming down, um uh the shots go off, uh the um uh everyone sort of looking around what's going on, and the uh Roy goes up the ramp and and drops onto the uh fire hydrant and it starts to fill up with water, and I was one of the guys running around trying to break the windows or to get him out. While we were doing that, uh while the car was filling up and we're waiting for Superman to fly in to save the day, a car pulls up, you can just see it. I saw it the other day. You can just see the guy getting out of the car behind me and running across the road.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Oh, is it he's a he's just a just a stat just a punter in the street?

SPEAKER_02 25:55

It was a punter in the street, just got out of the car and he saw the situation, grabbed the shovel behind to break a window, right? He was gonna smash the window. I had to grab him from behind and pull him off. He said, We must help, we must help. I said, It's alright, Superman's coming to save him, don't worry.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Now now he thinks you've gone mad.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, yeah. We had to cut the scene uh and uh do the filling up again of the thing because this lovely guy saw the situation and we were trying to smash the windows, but it was real smash it open with a with a uh uh shovel.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Of course, that that would have been that would have been wonderful news to Roy, who always loved a second take, as you know. Uh so oh do it again, not a problem. Um, but that that goes to say that so there's there's the the element of um you know fantasy about the whole thing, and yet underneath all of that, to an average Joe in the street, that's a real moment. That's that's something that, oh my god, I've got to step in and do it. So you've you've ticked both boxes there, you know, one uh uh completely uh unpredictably, but uh the idea that he's coming in to save the day is fascinating. So you you've got this little uh the the car's prepped obviously to let the water in, the little ramp that's landed on top, and we get the water going in. Um approximately, I mean, because there's a there's a number of edits. There's the photo there's the photo booth sequence where uh Clark Kent goes in, Superman comes out, and then he has to peel the photo, the the photos off and give it to the young fella, who of course was was the the little Superman in the first movie, which I didn't realise until watching the thing. Again, keeping all these things in order. Um, and then the flying sequence to the car, and he lands on the car, and he's now if you look at Roy's positioning by that time, his ass is up in the air, so he's not a million miles away from being in the roof, but he's trying to keep himself underwater. So, about how long would he have been under there? Was there a little tank under there in the water breathing app? Should he need it, that sort of stuff?

SPEAKER_02 27:57

Yes, yeah. Well, we had a full tank there and he had a demand bowel. Right. Um, but you know, Roy, he just overacting all the time. He was brilliant. Um so as the water was coming up, he's banging and and and really looking um scared. Yeah, a good little actor. Um, so yeah, um, he was there probably, you know, 30 seconds really, just uh being actually underwater. The rest of the time he was, you know, sort of uh yeah, just just about head height, yeah. Yeah, once it once it was gone, um it was just a matter of him holding his breath and um he knew where the demand bell was. If there was a problem, if Superman didn't arrive, he would have uh he'd have sued him.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Yes, that's what he'd have done. Uh and that lovely moment, of course, where Chris drags him out and he looks up and they shake hands, and it's uh it's this wonderful, wonderful moment. It's really, really lovely. Of course, he's had that photo, he had that photograph on top of his television for years of him being being saved by supervisation. It's a great sequence. Um, the uh just going back, the phone box sequence, were they hinged or did they knock in were they dominoed into each other? Uh was it just that the the body weight of the the individual inside rocking it over? How did that work? Was that done?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Um yeah, I think we had them uh slightly balanced at the bottom so that they were ready to go. Um which you didn't see, they look fairly straight. Um, and then it was a matter of um everyone on action when they get hit, they all sort of lean over one side.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Um, yeah, there was more or less hinged at the bottom, I think, in terms of the fixing at the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Um, I don't know whether it were actually screwed down, but they were actually uh able to fall on top of each other.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Because it certainly it certainly looked as though the ones at the front, the first lot that got hit by Tracy going in, they didn't have too far to go, but the ones at the end had a long way to go, you know. So it was six or one halfness of the other. But uh again, uh a very, very exciting shot. And of course, that um that wonderful moment where the the pie goes up and Christopher grabs hold of it. I don't know how many takes that was, but whatever that was, there must have been an enormous round of applause when he got right round it and stuck it right in your man's kisser, which was really, really of course. From his theatre days, he was a big slapstick comedian as well. Loved all those Charlie Chan Charlie uh Chaplin pictures and Buster Keaton. So loved all of that. His timing was wonderful, in it.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah, he uh yeah, he was brilliant most times. He he was on the ball. Uh his timing was great, where he was, and um uh and uh how to make the scene work, which uh you know you you have to have a talent for. Oh it's uh it's being aware of everything else around you uh and getting that timing right to uh be able to do it successfully. I don't really think we did it too many times.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

No, no, I I I mean it I would say in the making of documentary, they've probably got a couple of occasions, a couple, and he's really close on two of them, you know, and then nails it on maybe the third or the fourth one, but um I wouldn't say there was an awful lot of going on there. Um one of the other big sequences of the in the picture is of course Superman coming in and saving all of the people working in that plant, that extraordinary uh uh fire sequence. Um uh somebody mentioned, you know, it's a I think it was a was it a government-funded building or government-funded area or something of that nature where you couldn't go in with naked flame. I think that was the thing. And then ironically, you know, they were setting fire to everything and doing all sorts of bits and pieces. Was that complicated to set up?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

It was complicated because uh the director, Richard, wanted the um there was a um uh uh gas uh works or gas uh that's right, yeah. Yeah, gas works. Um uh uh buildings of uh pipes and and things in the distance. Yeah and he wanted it to be part of that. Okay. So we had to every shot we we couldn't do a reverse on on anybody uh because there was no they're supposed to be in the middle of it. So um the the uh gut gas plant itself, uh every time we wanted to turn around, we had to turn everybody around to to so that we've got the plant behind them.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

So it was a matter of going backwards and forwards. And I remember one time uh when um uh uh uh the the uh photographer. Oh Jimmy Olson, Mark McClure um had to to climb up the ladder to take photographs of of the uh a ladder of uh a fire engine to climb up and take photographs. So uh we had him obviously with the the um uh gas plant behind him coming forward and sneaking onto the uh uh ladder, then he had to climb up the ladder, and now we've got to be behind him shooting uh him what he's photographing, which is the plant. So we had to turn set take the uh fire engine and turn it round the other way, so that um when we look in that way, we got the the plant behind us.

SPEAKER_04 33:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Uh and Dick Leicester set it up and he had the camera on the right hand side of the uh the truck uh because we'd we'd shot him on the um one side of the truck getting onto the ladder, and then when you do the reverse, you've got a camera on this side and not the other side. But he put the camera there. And I thought, shall I s shall I shall I tell him to mention it um or not? Um if I don't mention it, it's it's gonna make look a fool by not because he's crossed the line.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

So I went up to him quietly and I said, um wouldn't it be on the other side if we'd we're reversing it coming around? And he went yes, yeah. Uh the camera over the other side never mentioned anything, but I know he knew that I knew.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Yeah, yeah. And if you knew, probably somebody else knew as well. So fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

I didn't want to um I didn't want to embarrass him, but um I I did see I I was very aware of crossing the line of any of the st any of the stunts or whatever. Yeah. So um I think it was it just put down an error and we we made sure it was on the other side to uh keep the uh uh on the right side of the line, which is very important.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Um and of course, part way through that sequence, Jimmy falls and uh and breaks his leg, doesn't he? Because uh Superman has a look at the X-rays of the leg and says, Oh, it's a break, don't worry, it's a clean break, it's fine. Um, and you've got a number of folk up there, a similar sort of team. You had a number of teams. Um uh Wayne was up there. Well, did Wayne double him falling, by the way? I wonder if he did. No, no.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Uh um uh Wayne was there, and uh uh uh Colin Skipin was doubling for Jimmy Olsen.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Right, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Um and also when um it was a tricky sequence because we had to have Superman walking through the fire.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

So the the special effects put roads about two or three metres apart of uh gas lines, right? So that as he walked, we had the foreground ones going up, and as he walked from one to the other, they shut that one down. I see, so he can walk in line.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

So he was walking through flame, but very cleverly uh Collins uh chilled us the special effects.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Again, in camera, you know, nowadays, well it's no problem, we'll just take it out in post, we'll sort this out, this will all be done, all green screen. But you're having to do it, you're having to think on your feet, and the the special effects boys having to think how can we get that person from that point A to this point B without injuring them, but still getting the shot we're looking for. And it's exactly what we're doing. You know, you're you're doing that in camera and trying to work it all out, which I think is uh is extraordinary. There's also the uh saving the the members of the uh the crew that the picking the pipe up and lying it down, the chimney and lying it down, and then getting them to slide down there as well. Okay, again, looks like it was done most of it done from one camera angle. There's a separate camera angle down looking up, yeah, but majority of it done from up here looking at them, watching them go down.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

It was very tricky because once I I got all the guys uh hustling each other to get down uh and Superman saying get in the chimney and slide down because they were too high to to carry each one down would have been taking too long. But so he came up with the idea of the uh chimney on its side and they could slide down it.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

But you couldn't slide down it.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

It was like no, it would be ridged and very uncomfortable, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah, yeah, it they the costume the clothes just stuck on it and trying to get them in. So what I had to do was get some um uh wax and um put some wax on all the way down there so they could slide down it.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Oh, I see, okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Yeah, um, and uh one time it was too fast. Uh they came flying down on top of each other. So we said no, um we've got to make it so that they can each you know get down comfortably. So I think I put a bit of water on it or something just to dampen it down a little, and they were able to go down one at a time comfortably, um, uh at acceptable speed. Yes, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Without them all firing out at the same time. Yeah, um, this movie stands out for many as uh um you know it's really the first time that um Christopher Reeve has had to play three characters, you know, he's always played two, he's always played the Clark Kent. Uh you said something very interesting last time we were talking about Superman uh was that when he was Superman, he was standing very proud and very tall. And when he put the glasses on, he shrank about six inches. Not physically shrank, but there was something about the way he held himself, and he became that Clark Kent character. Yeah. Well, but of course, in this uh uh Superman 3, there is a third character, which is the evil Superman. Um, and um, you know, they they've done something with the costume, they've made it darker, they've made it a bit dingier, he's got five o'clock shadow, there's all of that sort of stuff to consider. But obviously, from a shooting perspective, you will have to have those two in shot at the same time at some point, which means you have to have a separate as a double or a stand-in, however you're filming it. How complicated was that from the action? Because there's a great deal of action going on in that sequence.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yeah, it was very complicated, and I remember being on the recce on the back lots uh of the uh crusher the where the crusher was and all the the the breakage yard with all the cars and um and we stood there and I've done I've done my breakdown. I knew exactly when I was gonna have to have a double, when I wasn't gonna have a double.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Um which which I I I knew and understood, which I don't think the the other departments had quite in their minds. Because we stood there on the on the morning uh of the the first day and all the heads of the department there and Dick uh uh Richard Lester said, Okay, how are we gonna shoot this?

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Oh and has that information not got back to you then, director?

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Um he knew that it was complicated uh and he just wanted someone to say yes, we're gonna shoot it. Nobody said anything. Oh, okay. Uh, and they were you know it was a complicated sequence how we were gonna do it. And I said, well, to start with, I've got a double for this bit, and then and and it broke the ice, and we started all trying to do our bit, but no one knew how to do it uh uh uh on a whole as a piece changing from one uh character to another. But I I had to know when I was gonna change the characters, whereas each department didn't the the the uh Waldover department knew they had their c costumes, they would dress them when they were asked to dress. Right. No one came up with the idea of you know that's this this scene I'm gonna do. I knew when I wanted a double, uh when I needed a double. So yeah, I was uh very aware of that, and it was complicated. Um, in terms of uh getting uh over-the-shoulder stuff between Clark and and and Super the Bad Superman, then reversing it. Um so I I'd worked all those out. I knew what I had to do, uh, whether the director had his own uh own ideas or any other department, I knew what I had to do.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Um and Dusty Simons, I remember saying to me, you better get this right. And I I spent the worst weekend of my life doing my breakdown, making sure that I got my bit right. Yeah. And Monday morning I I I got it, I knew exactly what I needed to do. Um, so yeah, we it I had um uh uh uh uh the doubles I had were uh Richard Hammer.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Uh who um I had uh I at one time I had uh a uh two containers, uh uh uh you know the big um containers, yeah. Metal containers, one on top of the other, and we had uh cars dressed around that, so it was piles and piles. But the containers were like uh 30 feet off the ground, about 15, 12, 15 feet high. Uh and then above that um it was a the sequence where s um uh uh the evil uh Superman throws Clark Kent into the crusher.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

So I wanted the stunt guide to on a uh uh Russian swing to be swinging backwards and forwards on the swing, you go backwards and forwards, and the the the one on the end of it, once it gets up to its height, you come off. Yes, and you make your distance. You get thirty thirty-six feet. I tried it myself and it worked. Um and I had Richard Hammett up there, and I remember the lunchtime we were uh it was coming up to lunch and we were rehearsing. Uh and Richard did a couple and landed in the airbag uh quite well, quite fine. Uh and then he said, Can I said, Okay, it's lunch, chaps, let's go. Um, and he said, Can I try one more? I've got the shoes, I want to try it with the shoes. I said, Okay, but you've got it, don't worry. Um, he said, No, can I do one more? I said, Okay. Um, and the the next one he did, he went up on the the Russian swing, supposed to come off at that angle to get you but forward momentum. Uh he left it too late and went straight up and came straight down and hit uh mattresses down there, but he hit the mattresses and pushed them apart uh and uh punctured. His lung, he uh hit his back. Um, so yeah, he was um off to a hospital. Um uh so then I had to do it. I no one else to do it, so um I I threw myself, I was doubled by both uh Clark Kent and Superman. So at one time I was holding Chris like that, and they were gonna superimpose his head on my body. That's right. And then the next time I was just a Superman and he had his his arm around my uh neck.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Because this was this was early days of that type of thing, wasn't it? Obviously, when there's the the two shot and one's in the foreground and one's here by the camera and one's in the distance, you can see, well, that's that's Clark Kent, but that's Christopher Reed. But who's this? Well, you can use somebody else, but that moment where there's either the strangling or there's the holding it at the ground, there's clearly two people, and then there's this just little sort of face thing, ah, I see what they've done, but it's it it's very, very early days of superimposing faces onto this, so it's kind of uh you know ahead of its time as far as that was concerned.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Yeah, and we had to do uh quite a bit of that of uh swapping the um uh doubles round. Uh and in the end, uh I had uh Pat Roach.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Pat Roach, yes, the the the actor and ex-wrestler.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Yeah, uh I had Pat as a as a double. When uh Richard uh was injured, I got Pat in because he was big enough and he's but he was uh a little wooden, everything was like it was like um so I um used him in one shop when he gets wet but uh knocked back into the the rubbish. Right um but uh then I had to do it myself, so it's it's me uh when he comes out of the bake breaks out of the uh crusher.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Uh when yeah uh when uh Clark game comes out and they have that conversation between the two of them, that's me and uh I whack him and then I kick him in the face.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

So just clarifying then the the scene in the movie with the Russian swing landing in the crusher, that's you.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Okay, and then coming out of the crusher is you as well. Uh uh and then the so who's who's the who's the double then for Superman the the evil Superman if you're the Clark Kent coming out?

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Uh no, I I've been uh Clark Kent did it, uh Chris did that himself. Oh I see so then he comes over to me and it's me over my shoulder. Right. Um and I can't remember how I uh whack him, but he's on the floor, and then I have to kick him in the face.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

And that's on the on the a DVD somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yes, no, I've I've seen that. In fact, that's on that making of, I think. I see that uh that shot there as well. Okay. Yeah, it's uh it's a really terrific film. I've always been a huge fan of it, and uh it's great to reminisce about what was then. So thank you very much for doing that, Paul. I'm very grateful to you.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

So there we go. Uh the rest of that interview will be on YouTube on Friday. Don't forget to check that out. Remember what Paul said at the top of that in relation to his book Falling into Film. Uh, if uh you do have a copy of it or you've read it, leave an Amazon review. It's massively important in relation to the subsequent sale of the book and the interest around that as well. So don't forget to do it. The link is down below. All right. So until Friday, it's bye for now.